Masvidal/Askren (No Spoilers)

[Lauriedr1ver]

Quote: Originally Posted by johnmangala

It's never about what something is to you.. it's about what something actually means. In this case, luck is clearly defined. When external influence > internal influence. Science already proved external influence plays a far greater role in decision making than individual influence (did you have any choice in your birth?). Irl factoring in luck makes it more skill dependent as we have to deal with the unforeseen, even if only a little. As I mentioned before, right now the game is ~100% vulnerability based. This leads to redudant boring metas (like auto leg check low block), and less replayability. I am just saying inject a little element of luck.. it doesn't have to be 75/25% (vul/luck) like I suggested earlier -> could be 95/5% etc. Otherwise prepare for punch body kick central 2.0 (UFC 4).

Just remove "luck" compleley. Add more scenarios with greater depth to striking, ive brought up many additions in the past that are far better than a gamey luck concept. Making it harder to land and land clean is a far far better addition than this.

[johnmangala]

Quote: Originally Posted by Lauriedr1ver

Just remove "luck" compleley. Add more scenarios with greater depth to striking, ive brought up many additions in the past that are far better than a gamey luck concept. Making it harder to land and land clean is a far far better addition than this.

Except you missed the part I did on accuracy already:

"The block meter should be replaced with arm health, grappling stamina with grip meter etc. Damage to these areas should have far more noticeable effects -> arm health: accuracy, speed, etc, head: accuracy, balance, legs: accuracy, balance, power, etc.

Maybe have a luck stat that governs over how much fluctuation there is with the stats."

It's odd you'd call luck a 'gamey' concept, yet no mention of rhe ~100% consistent vulerability... Which is far 'gamier'.

I can see you are against luck, but realize a luck stat just governs stat decay/growth. That actually affects accuracy and makes it harder or easier to land depending on your performance.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Quote: Originally Posted by johnmangala

Except you missed the part I did on accuracy already: "The block meter should be replaced with arm health, grappling stamina with grip meter etc. Damage to these areas should have far more noticeable effects -> arm health: accuracy, speed, etc, head: accuracy, balance, legs: accuracy, balance, power, etc. Maybe have a luck stat that governs over how much fluctuation there is with the stats." It's odd you'd call luck a 'gamey' concept, yet no mention of rhe ~100% consistent vulerability... Which is far 'gamier'. I can see you are against luck, but realize a luck stat just governs stat decay/growth. That actually affects accuracy and makes it harder or easier to land depending on your performance.

I was only arguing against luck being added. The game is too consistent for unrealistic things and id rathee see that change rather than adding your idea? Anyways good chat.

[Kingslayer04]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kingslayer04

Why not use a power modifier? The D-Pad is used only for taunts so D-Pad direction + a modifier could enter the power stance. It can then knock people out cold and do more damage to the block but it will take more stamina per shot (that includes whiffing and hitting the block) and be a bit slower because you load up. Then, if you are unsuccessful in trying to take someone's head off you'll be quite gassed. I'm thinking about how some fighters only have a power stance and nothing else and block breaking isn't a thing for them. Perhaps guys like Lewis, Woodley, should only have the power stance to prevent combo pressure and block breaking from those guys. Perhaps Max Holloway shouldn't even have this power stance. Etc, etc.

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

GPD, What are the other options?

@GPD, it'd be great to get some sort of response here.



PS: Guys, just check out MartialMind's latest video on Ngannou, it was absolutely beautiful. It was everything a fight with Francis should be. Martial did have some success on the feet, like Stipe, gassed him out a little bit but ultimately the ego to strike with Francis got him every time. Sooner or later you'll get slept if you keep it standing. It was just awesome and I'm doing it too now. It's also incredible how once he's gassed and fatigued, he can still hurt you but he can't follow up with volume anymore and you get to avoid his strikes more easily. Then again, even under those circumstances he can easily knock you out with just one if you're not extremely careful.

Now, it would be great to have strikes like the jab, the body shots and the kicks deal less damage, absolutely, as well as making landing shots more difficult + triggering a more fatigued animation earlier but apart from that it was great. Well, I also think Francis doesn't gas that fast on the ground (Blaydes took me there and each denial wiped the entire short-term stamina) but of course, he should still gas pretty fast. Nothing a bit of tinkering can't fix, I'm sure. But all in all, it was pretty great, check it out.

[johnmangala]

Quote: Originally Posted by Lauriedr1ver

I was only arguing against luck being added. The game is too consistent for unrealistic things and id rathee see that change rather than adding your idea? Anyways good chat.

Both are my ideas.

Name the unrealism.

[tomitomitomi]

Quote: Originally Posted by johnmangala

This discussion isn't just about RNG I don't know why you fixate on that as if I haven't written anything else. Common here.

Because it's one of those statements that's so baffling it makes everything else hard to take seriously. If I play a game of Magic The Gathering (which is arguably the most skillful game in the world) and I do not draw mana for my first 10 turns while my opponent's aggro deck has a perfect curve then there is very little I could have done to alter the outcome of the game. Similarly, if I get KO'd by the first punch that lands then I did not lose the game because I was less skilled.

Manipulating RNG in your favor is a skill but everyone does that well at the highest levels so if the game has too much RNG it plays a big factor into who wins. RNG mostly exists in games to create variety and reduce repetition like you mentioned, which is why I would be okay with the game having a tiny bit of RNG to makes things a bit unpredictable. However, there should definitely be option to disable it for private matches in case people want to have a more competitive experience.

People use the word randomness to describe phenomena they can't explain or understand. Rolling a dice is "random" to us even though it determined by the laws of physics. This is nigh impossible for games to replicate so a rng% is the easier method, even though it is not based on realism at all.

[Reinfarcements]

Since it is being discussed here is a post I made on accuracy and "luck" a while ago:

Quote: Originally Posted by Reinfarcements

In terms of accuracy of strikes, I absolutely agree accuracy should be lowered. As a result damage overall should be raised slightly in my opinion. Speaking of damage, I would love to see variable damage values. An uppercut shouldn't ALWAYS do the same exact amount of damage, I think there should be a small range of damage each strike could do. I understand the vulnerability system was supposed to sort of address this, but it is not enough. Even if you hit a guy circling out with the appropriate hook, that hook isn't ALWAYS going to do massive damage. Sometimes strikes just don't land perfectly, its as simple as that. Now to calculate how much damage a strike does within its range, ideally but almost certainly not possible at the moment is a full on physics driven striking system. What I mean by that is the game literally calculates the speed, mass, ect all the physics stuff, for example if a strike hits a glove or elbow on the way in, its power is going to be reduced due to speed being taken out of it. Plus have a complex hit-box on the fighters face. The chin and behind the ear being the most vulnerable spots on a fighter, forehead being a big damage reducer, ect. This would go well with the more realistic accuracy suggested as well. Grazing shots would be less damaging under such a physics system. However, due to this ^ almost certainly being something you have to have in mind while creating the game from the ground up, simple RNG works for me. But I know some people hate seeing RNG as much as I hate seeing "parry" so I'm sure thats not going to be accepted. So really I don't know what to suggest and everything I just said may be useless.

I don't expect RNG to make it back in the game any time soon after people made such a big deal about it, I just want to get people thinking that maybe it wasn't the right choice to remove it completely. I'd love a 100% realistic damage/accuracy system as much as the next guy but it seems we just are not there yet on the technology side.

[tomitomitomi]

I don't really get the need to copypasta same comments again and again but oh well. I have nothing else to add.