Situation-specific grappling and submissions

[Kingslayer04]

This is the third attempt of me posting this thread, the site crashes every time I try to. I'm not typing this for a third time, so here's a screenshot:

[Solid_Altair]

I think having the attacking portion being quite specific per submission coooouuuld be OK. But the defending part being very specific would essentially doom someone to lose the whole fight. I think it would be too hard to learn (not just hard to master).

[1212headkick]

Bring back ud3s sub system. Problem solved.

[Kingslayer04]

Quote: Originally Posted by Solid_Altair

I think having the attacking portion being quite specific per submission coooouuuld be OK. But the defending part being very specific would essentially doom someone to lose the whole fight. I think it would be too hard to learn (not just hard to master).

Yeah, that could be a possibility. Maybe many of them share similar principles of defence, i.e. you learn one, you practically learn 3 or 4, something like that. ZHunter could perhaps help. But yeah, I wanted to start a discussion and gauge what's possible, what's less possible, all of that. But having to know how to defend different kinds of submissions would be very cool, especially during the submission itself. The attacker should perhaps also learn how exactly to pull of different subs properly — in order to really be a sub specialist.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by 1212headkick

Bring back ud3s sub system. Problem solved.

Thats a horrible idea. I was playing UD3 this weekend and reminded how ****ty that system is.

[Kingslayer04]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

Thats a horrible idea. I was playing UD3 this weekend and reminded how ****ty that system is.

Is that the chasing one? I don't know if it's good or bad in that game but WWE games have it and I can't buy a submission or an escape on there, I have to use the simple system. Dunno if it's me or if it's just bad.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kingslayer04

Yeah, that could be a possibility. Maybe many of them share similar principles of defence, i.e. you learn one, you practically learn 3 or 4, something like that. ZHunter could perhaps help. But yeah, I wanted to start a discussion and gauge what's possible, what's less possible, all of that. But having to know how to defend different kinds of submissions would be very cool, especially during the submission itself. The attacker should perhaps also learn how exactly to pull of different subs properly — in order to really be a sub specialist.

So lets break down what this requires:

- New animations and mo cap focusing solely on the step by step of each submission. Now the current animations already do this to a point but based on your descriptions, I think the animations would need to be more incremental to show the squeezing and the turning.

- New camera when subs are locked in. You would need to be able to observe the intricacies of each adjustment and a wide camera angle would not be able to pick that up as easily.

- This is the biggest one. I play Madden. When I play I dont use the hot routes or line adjustments when on offense. I just play. I know what hot routes are. I know why I would use line adjustments. I just dont ever use them because that level of realism isnt needed for a game that I just like to pick up and play. The good news is i can still be successful at the game without using those features.

Here you are asking for every player to study a tutorial and learn what you need to do to either advance or defend a submission and there are 28 different submissions in the game. If you dont learn them, you are at a serious disadvantage when it comes to winning in a fight. That goes for online or offline.

Now you may say "How about two control schemes? Simple submissions and the new system." That could work but my question for you is: What system do you think the average player will choose? I think it would be simple submissions because its straight forward.

So if most use simple submissions, why would the dev team spend time and resources to develop a system that will be a challenge to learn and that most people wont use?

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kingslayer04

Is that the chasing one? I don't know if it's good or bad in that game but WWE games have it and I can't buy a submission or an escape on there, I have to use the simple system. Dunno if it's me or if it's just bad.

Yep thats the chasing one. Keep in mind its better than Undisputed 2's system (which was the absolute worst) but I though UD3's sub system wasnt much better.

The best ive seen is EA MMA and thats far from perfect.