A look back.....

[Gion]

Quote: Originally Posted by Windtear

Funny thread, compare a game made from 8 years ago tried to make a case on which one is more "realistic" while completely disregard the full generation tech leap and how rebust the modern development tool had advanced. But one thing didn't change, Undisputed 3 was a great game people will love and remember forever, average user review 7.5-8.2 (high for a sport/fighting sim) whereas EA sports UFC 1,2,3 averaged out 4/10 on metacritic In undisputed series, you always have the full control of your fighter, there's no donkeyish business such as an upper cut auto convert to a low kick at the moment you need it the most or a tonado kick landed 100% on your opponent's face but didn't register. EA Sports ufc 3 is broken on the fundamental lvl, no company should release a game and ask players to deal with 1500m-2000m input delay, your fighter just refuse to carry out your command most of time, the only way to master UFC3 is to adapt it's donkeyish animation pace and land a flashy combo while standing, players aren't suppose to deal with such low quality standard

1. 7th gen to 8th gen was the weakest leap in console history, so the comparison is still valid. Many incredibly realistic games have came to the ps3, the SOCOM series, Far Cry 2, The Last of Us to name a few
2. Completely dishonest to compare UD3 single score, to an average of a game series that had a ****ty, ****ty first entry. Ign gave UFC 3 a 7.5 and UD3 a 9
3. To this day when I play UD3, sometimes I will throw a head kick or punch and my opponent is at the end of my strike, my strike will then SLAP THEIR FACE turning their chin and nothing will register.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Operation Sports mobile app

[1212headkick]

People dont talk about undisputed 3 because of just its game modes(its best mode being pride) but because of how the mechanics make more sense with major and minor transitions. You could actually hold a guy there. Wasnt none of this deny twice full ga stuff. You had to slowly work for each position and the minor positions made you feel like your actually grappling. I mean look how realistic the grappling is in that game compared to this game. And look at the deep training modes. Ea cant hold a candle to that. And if they dont listen to the majority of the community wanting the next game to be like undisputed it will flop badly.

[Windtear]

Quote: Originally Posted by Gion

1. 7th gen to 8th gen was the weakest leap in console history, so the comparison is still valid. Many incredibly realistic games have came to the ps3, the SOCOM series, Far Cry 2, The Last of Us to name a few 2. Completely dishonest to compare UD3 single score, to an average of a game series that had a ****ty, ****ty first entry. Ign gave UFC 3 a 7.5 and UD3 a 9 3. To this day when I play UD3, sometimes I will throw a head kick or punch and my opponent is at the end of my strike, my strike will then SLAP THEIR FACE turning their chin and nothing will register. Sent from my SM-G960U using Operation Sports mobile app

1. Funny, compare games like GOW, UC4, TLOU2, days gone etc to their 7th gen predecessor, the leap is beyond any previous gen or 2 gens combined together, yet, UFC 3 went full backward. and if your standard of "realism" is far cry 2 and the likes, than no wonder your standard is low enough for EA Sport UFC3

2. Metacrtics scores are averages from multiply source, saying that dishonest either suggest you aren't good at math or lack understanding of what is objectivity. metacrtic scores are as honest as you can get, you however, attempt to cite a single favorable score to back your basis-ed opinion. Speaking of dishonest.....

3. "my strike will then SLAP THEIR FACE turning their chin and nothing will register. " and this happens far more often in UFC 3, not to mention other donkeyish technical shortcoming such as auto convert user command, 2000m input lag, and zillions more.

[MacGowan]

And off the rails we go...

[bmlimo]

Quote: Originally Posted by Gion

1. 7th gen to 8th gen was the weakest leap in console history, so the comparison is still valid. Many incredibly realistic games have came to the ps3, the SOCOM series, Far Cry 2, The Last of Us to name a few 2. Completely dishonest to compare UD3 single score, to an average of a game series that had a ****ty, ****ty first entry. Ign gave UFC 3 a 7.5 and UD3 a 9 3. To this day when I play UD3, sometimes I will throw a head kick or punch and my opponent is at the end of my strike, my strike will then SLAP THEIR FACE turning their chin and nothing will register. Sent from my SM-G960U using Operation Sports mobile app

Both had bad first games the diference os that ea had the blue print of 4 mma games

[ZHunter1990]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheUFCVeteran

I think there might be a bit of confusion. In my initial post, when I said "Sim. Mode", I wasn't saying that I wanted one in UFC 3 (well... I do, but still), but just that it made UD3 a lot better. In my eyes, the way to fix insane output is to have the temp stamina (and max stamina but less so) massively drop after 3-4 big power strikes. To me, it's not a matter of "it can be punished", it's that it shouldn't even be possible in the first place.

That wouldnt be realistic though. Placing an artifical restriction on stamina that massively drops upon throwing 3-4 power strikes isnt realistic by any stretch. Im assuming that you mean hooks/uppers because you already cannot throw overhands in rapid succession without short term gassing.

That would just be limiting the pace to something that you prefer. The temp stamina floor is already bottlenecks creativitiy. Nerfing it further would make the game feel "stuck in the mud" especially for casuals.

I could get on board with a higher perma stam drain though.

Also from what I remember from UD3 sim mode, unless you were REALLY bad, it was quite easy to not get KO'd until later in the fight. This was in part due to a myriad of other flaws in the game such as the damage system and block system, but held especially true for Sim mode.

Quote: Originally Posted by TheUFCVeteran

I think spam in general in UFC 3 would be muuuuuch less of a problem if the controls and head movement were super snappy and responsive. Forget how it looks, it's about how it plays.

Would you be willing to give up smooth/aesthetically pleasing strikes for jarring/choppy animations by cutting out the start up frames of strikes to allow for a snappier feel? Same with sways. My guess is that you would given some of your other comments, I would too. But would that be a good design decision for EA? I dont think so, given how important graphics and aesthetic elements are in sports games for casual appeal.

[TheUFCVeteran]

Quote: Originally Posted by ZHunter1990

That wouldnt be realistic though. Placing an artifical restriction on stamina that massively drops upon throwing 3-4 power strikes isnt realistic by any stretch. Im assuming that you mean hooks/uppers because you already cannot throw overhands in rapid succession without short term gassing. That would just be limiting the pace to something that you prefer. The temp stamina floor is already bottlenecks creativitiy. Nerfing it further would make the game feel "stuck in the mud" especially for casuals. I could get on board with a higher perma stam drain though. Also from what I remember from UD3 sim mode, unless you were REALLY bad, it was quite easy to not get KO'd until later in the fight. This was in part due to a myriad of other flaws in the game such as the damage system and block system, but held especially true for Sim mode. Would you be willing to give up smooth/aesthetically pleasing strikes for jarring/choppy animations by cutting out the start up frames of strikes to allow for a snappier feel? Same with sways. My guess is that you would given some of your other comments, I would too. But would that be a good design decision for EA? I dont think so, given how important graphics and aesthetic elements are in sports games for casual appeal.

Regarding temp stamina, I don’t mean for it to suddenly drop after 3-4 big strikes, just that after 3-4 big strikes, it should’ve dropped a significant amount in a similar fashion to UD3. I agree that a massive stamina drop out of the blue would indeed be artificial and feel terrible. One of the things with UFC 3 is that a lot of the strikes (hooks, uppercuts etc.) feels like they have no real weight to them animation wise. They don’t look like hooks and uppercuts that would be thrown in a real fight, the intensity isn’t there.

The damage depends. I’ve seen HW fights get finished after the first knockdown, if you know how to create openings and bait out your opponent’s counters, you can rack up a lot of damage quick. That goes for any division. Don’t forget flash KOs, etc. A little bit of RNG is fine personally when it comes to more realism, especially when it comes to flash KOs and the like. But only as long as it has some logic and makes at least partial sense.

The block was impenetrable unless rocked, which is a good and bad thing. The good thing is, well, it worked with the game. The bad is that it’s not entirely realistic. Maybe different blocking styles should’ve had different resilience values for each type of strike (Reem’s high guard will absorb jabs and straights easily but a hook could get through and do damage).

Hell yes! This is what Yuke’s did and it made for extremely snappy and responsive feeling controls. However, I also understand that the casual audience would look at it and go, “wow, that’s lazy, look how choppy this is”, BUT, I think some of them would also realise how much more responsive it would be (also assuming it was a true 60fps).

Speaking of responsiveness, recovery frames HAVE to be seriously cut down in UFC 4 for certain strikes. Eating a naked stationary leg kick (from CM Punk as Robbie Lawler) leaves you unable to strike for almost a full second. I counted 0.8 seconds but it could be a tiny bit longer. And yes, I know there are a few situations in which this doesn’t always happen due to moving a certain way or throwing a certain strike, but my point is, it shouldn’t be possible.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by Windtear

Funny thread, compare a game made from 8 years ago tried to make a case on which one is more "realistic" while completely disregard the full generation tech leap and how rebust the modern development tool had advanced. But one thing didn't change, Undisputed 3 was a great game people will love and remember forever, average user review 7.5-8.2 (high for a sport/fighting sim) whereas EA sports UFC 1,2,3 averaged out 4/10 on metacritic In undisputed series, you always have the full control of your fighter, there's no donkeyish business such as an upper cut auto convert to a low kick at the moment you need it the most or a tonado kick landed 100% on your opponent's face but didn't register. EA Sports ufc 3 is broken on the fundamental lvl, no company should release a game and ask players to deal with 1500m-2000m input delay, your fighter just refuse to carry out your command most of time, the only way to master UFC3 is to adapt it's donkeyish animation pace and land a flashy combo while standing, players aren't suppose to deal with such low quality standard

- The purpose of this thread isnt "to make a case on which one is more "realistic". LOL. It never was. There is not a single post I made that compares the realism in either game other than me reposting a post I made 8 years ago complaining about how the offline AI wasnt sim and that THQ's goal wasnt to make an offline sim. Which is similar to posts I've made tens of times here about EA's games.

- I also never said UD3 wasnt a "great game". I used actual posts from hardcore sports sim fans during the time the game was released to show that while that game was beloved, OSers had SOME similar complaints to what we have now.

- On another note, I know the whole thing here is to say that me or anyone who defends UFC 3 is an "EA apologist" but whats funny to me is that if you look at my UD3 post they are similar to what I post here about UFC3. They are realistic about what the goal of the game company is. They bash the game in areas it should be bashed (UD3 had basic AI and UFC3 has no depth when it comes to modes and other areas). They praise the game in areas where it should be praised.

I should pull up my UFC1 posts where I bashed the game regularly. ****, I was likely the first person in the US to stream that ****ty game (I bought the game off Ebay before release) and showed everyone how bad the game was).

- Its my fault though. It is. Every 6 mos, I try to post a thread that will encourage nuanced discussion about MMA games and something different than the typical wishlist posts or complaint posts or the praise posts that turn into complaint posts. 9 times out of ten these posts turn into **** shows so I shouldnt be surprised.

We made it a whole 2 pages before the thread turned so good job everyone. I did get a beneficial and friendly back and forth with Haz_ (which is rare) so thats a plus.