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MartialMind and UD3

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Old 02-15-2020, 04:16 AM   #9
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Re: MartialMind and UD3

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Originally Posted by ZombieRommel
I'll let Martial speak for himself if he ever makes his way into this thread, but I do not believe he enjoys the gameplay of UD3 more. He likes the attention to presentation, the atmosphere, and the diverse swath of animations in the game.

In no way is UD3 better gameplay-wise than UFC3. Just watch a match out the gate.

The AI comes forward with his fist raised but the devs didn't even program an actual glove touch, so you just meander into each other like two blind men feeling their way through the fog before the AI immediately begins assaulting you.

As there is no vulnerability system in place, you can't strategically use strikes to interrupt the other guy and hooks end up taking precedence over straight punches.

The health system is absolutely out of an arcade fighting game, with PERMANENT health loss and zero nuance. Under the hood, the head silhouette is nothing but a Street Fighter 2 health meter.

To be honest, it's a very stupid and silly game in terms of its gameplay. I won't even get into the grappling because to be honest I don't remember much of it, but I do remember it was very shallow and felt like Checkers instead of Chess (nevermind the AWFUL submission mini-game).

This has been my opinion since UD3 came out. I played and somewhat enjoyed UD1 and UD2, but UD3 came out with an online mode that DIDN'T WORK AT ALL (game-breaking de-sync issue that was never fixed), which soured me on the devs, and soon after THQ went under.

You can have your own opinion of course, but the gameplay of UD3 was never great. The devs just really understood animations and presentation and went all-out on it. It was like a pretty girl with a rotten personality.

EA MMA, despite having hideous animations, was the far better MMA game for that time period, and it came out before UD3.
Lol how did u become a game changer? You are a game changer, right? Lord, can we vote this guy out? You critisize the glove touch. Is that really impirtant to you? Does a glove touch animation make the game good in your eyes?

To your second point, the AI is definitely capable of being patient. You clearly don't even watch martials videos because this is demonstrated there.

You say EA MMA was better. The game where u wait for a vibration and hit a single button to stop all transitions. Man that game didn't come close to touching UD3. The damage system was fun and fight cards were awesome. That's all the game had going for it. UD3 is all around fun.

I don't know what you are looking for in an MMA game. Cause if you like realism, EA ain't it. If you like competitive MP, EA ain't it.

So what exactly do you want? Cause I want an accurate representation of the sport and UD3 is the closest we have.

Also, seems like alot of people on here just want an updated UD3. EA has had 3 chances and still hasn't created the fun game that THQ did. Why do so many of us including Martial keep going back to UD3 over EAs UFC games? The answer is simple. ITS FUN!

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Last edited by smokeface; 02-15-2020 at 04:24 AM.
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Old 02-15-2020, 04:21 AM   #10
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Re: MartialMind and UD3

Zombie, look at the thread about what's the best MMA game. UD3 seems the be winning. Maybe you should go give it another shot, but you won't, cause if I had to guess you are an only online guy. We are still playing UD3 cause it's the best to date.

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Last edited by smokeface; 02-15-2020 at 04:26 AM.
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Old 02-15-2020, 05:27 AM   #11
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Re: MartialMind and UD3

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieRommel
I'll let Martial speak for himself if he ever makes his way into this thread, but I do not believe he enjoys the gameplay of UD3 more. He likes the attention to presentation, the atmosphere, and the diverse swath of animations in the game.

In no way is UD3 better gameplay-wise than UFC3. Just watch a match out the gate.

The AI comes forward with his fist raised but the devs didn't even program an actual glove touch, so you just meander into each other like two blind men feeling their way through the fog before the AI immediately begins assaulting you.

As there is no vulnerability system in place, you can't strategically use strikes to interrupt the other guy and hooks end up taking precedence over straight punches.

The health system is absolutely out of an arcade fighting game, with PERMANENT health loss and zero nuance. Under the hood, the head silhouette is nothing but a Street Fighter 2 health meter.

To be honest, it's a very stupid and silly game in terms of its gameplay. I won't even get into the grappling because to be honest I don't remember much of it, but I do remember it was very shallow and felt like Checkers instead of Chess (nevermind the AWFUL submission mini-game).

This has been my opinion since UD3 came out. I played and somewhat enjoyed UD1 and UD2, but UD3 came out with an online mode that DIDN'T WORK AT ALL (game-breaking de-sync issue that was never fixed), which soured me on the devs, and soon after THQ went under.

You can have your own opinion of course, but the gameplay of UD3 was never great. The devs just really understood animations and presentation and went all-out on it. It was like a pretty girl with a rotten personality.

EA MMA, despite having hideous animations, was the far better MMA game for that time period, and it came out before UD3.
I have a totally different opinion, of course I respect your opinion, but it doesn't come close to mine, I still play UD3 and of course UFC 3, I also have the EA MMA which I barely play with it, and That you tell me that even MMA is better than UD3 for me is a sacrilege, since MMA would only be able to choose between ring or octagon to fight and little else with respect to the other 2 games.

Both the UD3 and the UFC 3 have good things and not so good things, but if I put them on a scale for me, you win UD3 being a game from a previous generation, the level of details, of options, wins the game EA , the grip, the ground, injuries, tie in fights that are very close, I am honestly not a follower of the fight on the ground, but still in UD3 I like this one, so I hope that in UFC 4 the Fight on its feet continues ,and if it is possible to add boxing and muay thai with its rules that would be the greatest for me.

I really hope that UFC 4 surpasses UD3, that its game modes are fantastic, that immersion in the fight is fabulous, that we leave the edition lovers all the possibilities that can be done, both in number of fighters that We can create then only 22 fighters to create is ridiculous, that the range of possibilities in the edition is widely satisfactory.
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Old 02-15-2020, 05:35 AM   #12
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Re: MartialMind and UD3

Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeface
Lol how did u become a game changer? You are a game changer, right? Lord, can we vote this guy out? You critisize the glove touch. Is that really impirtant to you? Does a glove touch animation make the game good in your eyes?

To your second point, the AI is definitely capable of being patient. You clearly don't even watch martials videos because this is demonstrated there.

You say EA MMA was better. The game where u wait for a vibration and hit a single button to stop all transitions. Man that game didn't come close to touching UD3. The damage system was fun and fight cards were awesome. That's all the game had going for it. UD3 is all around fun.

I don't know what you are looking for in an MMA game. Cause if you like realism, EA ain't it. If you like competitive MP, EA ain't it.

So what exactly do you want? Cause I want an accurate representation of the sport and UD3 is the closest we have.

Also, seems like alot of people on here just want an updated UD3. EA has had 3 chances and still hasn't created the fun game that THQ did. Why do so many of us including Martial keep going back to UD3 over EAs UFC games? The answer is simple. ITS FUN!

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Operation Sports mobile app
I think I articulated most of my points pretty clearly. The lack of a proper glove touch is indicative of how half-baked and rushed UD3 was. It was literally rushed out the door to sell copies before THQ went out of business, as also indicated by the game-breaking desync bug online, which was promised to be fixed and never was.

I'll give credit where it is due. The game has some good animations here and there and definitely a wider assortment of animations. The increase in animations also means that many of the transitions from standing to clinch to ground are smoother and more life-like / less robotic. And as I said, the game does a good job in terms of presentation. It's still fun to go back and watch the Pride walkouts.

What is weak is the underlying gameplay systems, if you actually care about them, but it seems you don't and that's fine. For some people, a wide variety of "stuff" in a game is more important than boring things like "gameplay logic."

You say the damage system is "fun". Maybe to you it's fun, but to me it wasn't. I expected more. What we got was a Mortal Kombat / Street Fighter life meter represented by a colored silhouette.

In EA UFC3, you have a very nuanced system of damage recovery both during the fight and between rounds. Get rocked? It's okay. Block and move your head enough and you can get your wits again and absorb damage. In UD3, if you get beat up to 99% damage, you can fight the next 4 rounds taking no damage and then eat one small punch and get KO'd flat. To me that's very elementary and stupid. It bespeaks THQ's design emphasis, which was to cram a lot of stuff into the game and not worry about the depth of any of it.

EA MMA had MUCH uglier animations and much less stuff to do, but in terms of the moment to moment gameplay, yes it was better. You actually had some semblance of vulnerability logic in the striking. One hit KO's weren't percentage-chance based flash events like in UD3. They actually took into account what the other guy was doing and what you hit him with. Health recovered during the round if you managed to stay away from damage (imagine that). Stamina meant a lot and wasn't nearly as forgiving as UD3's stamina system.

UD3 had its merits, but as someone who appreciates depth in games, I was very underwhelmed. If I said anything else, I'd be lying to you. When I was voted to be a GameChanger, my stance on this game was exactly the same and the people who voted me in knew it.

You can sit here and tell me things like "The damage system was fun", which is your opinion. And I can sit here and tell you in precise detail why that system was terrible. Like, I'll give you my opinion, yes, but I'll also back it up with exactly what my reasons are. That's the whole point of being a GameChanger. It's not "Hey this guy thinks just like everybody else on the forum, so let's vote him in." It's "This guy will tell us exactly what he likes and doesn't like and WHY." I've always done that. I realize UD3 has a following on this forum. Would I like to see its positive merits in the next EA game? Sure. I'd like better animations, smoother grappling transitions, more positions, more scrambles, more visual dynamism, and more attention to presentation.

But am I going to sit here and tell you UD3 was the pinnacle of MMA GAMEPLAY? No, I'd be lying my @ss off for forum brownie points, which is something I won't do. And if you can't respect that, then sorry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leiqueros
I have a totally different opinion, of course I respect your opinion, but it doesn't come close to mine, I still play UD3 and of course UFC 3, I also have the EA MMA which I barely play with it, and That you tell me that even MMA is better than UD3 for me is a sacrilege, since MMA would only be able to choose between ring or octagon to fight and little else with respect to the other 2 games.

Both the UD3 and the UFC 3 have good things and not so good things, but if I put them on a scale for me, you win UD3 being a game from a previous generation, the level of details, of options, wins the game EA , the grip, the ground, injuries, tie in fights that are very close, I am honestly not a follower of the fight on the ground, but still in UD3 I like this one, so I hope that in UFC 4 the Fight on its feet continues ,and if it is possible to add boxing and muay thai with its rules that would be the greatest for me.

I really hope that UFC 4 surpasses UD3, that its game modes are fantastic, that immersion in the fight is fabulous, that we leave the edition lovers all the possibilities that can be done, both in number of fighters that We can create then only 22 fighters to create is ridiculous, that the range of possibilities in the edition is widely satisfactory.
I think all of your points here are fair. UFC3 lacks features that would help to make the game feel well-rounded and complete as a full representation of MMA. All I've said in this thread is I prefer UFC3's moment to moment gameplay. I appreciate depth. In my opinion that's what most of this preference comes down to. UFC3 has combat depth while UD3 has breadth of content. The ideal MMA game will have both bases covered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by That Ragdoll Guy
Ive the same impression. He seems to be more excited and challenged when playing UD 3, a 10 yo game on a weaker console generation btw. People tend to confuse stiking with MMA.

UFC 3s striking is bomb no question about it, but everything beside the new striking and movement at the same time system is not good enough for a PS 4 generation. Hit reactions, hit detection, combo system, free flowing striking, KO Physics, Physics in general are bad for PS 4, game balance is not exisiting, transition to grappling, grappling in general, recycled cut scenes, boring gamemodes, watered down career mode, recycled grappling, clinch, uneventful grappling, unrealistic looking and unrealistic feeling TKOs and follow up punches, limited fighter creation options(limited CAF slots), same grappling animations since UFC 1... I could go on, but I still have other stuff to do today.

Oh yeah, saying even EA MMA is better than UD 3, is so far from off from the truth, that I dont even have an adjective for it. Ive never heard something like that in my entire life. Wow.
I don't understand. In one breath you say UFC3's striking is "bomb, no question about it." And then in the next breath you criticize the hit detection, hit reactions, combo system, etc. All of these things pertain to the striking.

You say the game balance doesn't exist, and while it is far from perfect and there are glaring holes to be fixed, the actual game balance and depth is so much better than any other MMA game. I don't know if or how much you played UD3 online (since it was so hard to just play a stable match with how buggy it was), but it wasn't fun. To even have a semblance of a real fight, you had to play with simulation health / stamina enabled, and even then it was arcadey. It LOOKED authentic but the underlying gameplay systems were spammy and arcadey.

Because of the many, MANY hours of thought and experimentation GPD put in the EA games, we actually ended up with a logical system with checks and balances on damn-near everything, and if you can't see that then you don't play the game at high enough a level. Are certain things just flat out busted and unfun (like the clinch)? Yes, for sure. But in terms of other MMA games, UFC3 is by far the most balanced one we've ever had.

EA MMA looked a lot worse in action than UD3 (due to the ugly animations), but the health logic, stamina logic, counter-hit logic, and damage recovery logic were all miles better and more authentic than what UD3 offered.

Look, I can empathize with many of your points. The caf stuff, the stalled grappling, how much of the setups and animations look and feel robotic (the TKO scenarios & ragdolls).

But to me, the metric I use is "How fun is the game to play against other people who know what they're doing and have mastered all the systems?"

The depth was there to sustain UFC3 throughout its lifespan. Once THQ decided to abandon UD3, left the online broken, and then went out of business, I didn't sit around and play a game from a dead franchise that I knew had no support and would never be patched again.

I respect that a lot of people liked playing that game offline and can easily see why they preferred it as an offline experience.
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Old 02-15-2020, 06:09 AM   #13
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Re: MartialMind and UD3

I agree that the game that comes closest to perfection has to be a mix between UD3 and UFC3 which in my opinion are the 2 best of MMA
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Old 02-15-2020, 07:02 AM   #14
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Re: MartialMind and UD3

Have y'all considered that maybe Martial is enjoying UD 3 more at the moment because he hasn't been uploading 60+ minutes of it per week for 2 years in a row? Chances are he wouldn't be as joyful if he had to play that mess of a game online regularly.

I wholeheartedly agree with ZR that Undisputed 3 was largely flash over substance and that EA MMA wipes the floor with UD 3 in terms of gameplay mechanics.
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Old 02-15-2020, 07:38 AM   #15
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Re: MartialMind and UD3

Im not quoting @Zombie now cause then we gonna get 10 pages of quotes in this thread. lol

You gotta read the full sentence: UFC 3s striking is bomb no question about it, but everything beside the new striking and movement at the same time system, is not good enough for a PS 4 generation.

then Im counting down half of the issues top of my head. So striking/movement is the best in a MMA game ever, but everything that surrounds the striking is poorly made. (Or I should say not good enough)

Im trying to give an example: The Headmovement is part of the striking which is technically better than in any other MMA game before UFC 3, but then again... Im limited in moving my head, cause I can move my head only forward backward left and right, on an analog stick that is capable of making 360 turns. Why? I have like another 10 ''Why'' examples, right off the bet... cause its bothering me for 2 years now.

Im not saying UFC 3 is a bad game, I'd still put it top5 in MMA games besides the issues I have with it...

All Im saying is, its not good enough for whats actually possible on PS 4. Especially when you have a 10yo old game and other MMA/Boxing games, that did it better in most areas of the game. (Most of them are EA games btw, including EA MMA)

It could all just be bad, because it was rushed out early (thats obviously the case with UFC 3) but that doesnt make it right to call it the best MMA game ever, IMO. We dont all think a like of course. Im very happy EA is taking their time this time around.

Lets hope that we can all agree on, that UFC 4 is the best ever.
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Old 02-15-2020, 07:41 AM   #16
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Re: MartialMind and UD3

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieRommel
I think I articulated most of my points pretty clearly. The lack of a proper glove touch is indicative of how half-baked and rushed UD3 was. It was literally rushed out the door to sell copies before THQ went out of business, as also indicated by the game-breaking desync bug online, which was promised to be fixed and never was.

I'll give credit where it is due. The game has some good animations here and there and definitely a wider assortment of animations. The increase in animations also means that many of the transitions from standing to clinch to ground are smoother and more life-like / less robotic. And as I said, the game does a good job in terms of presentation. It's still fun to go back and watch the Pride walkouts.

What is weak is the underlying gameplay systems, if you actually care about them, but it seems you don't and that's fine. For some people, a wide variety of "stuff" in a game is more important than boring things like "gameplay logic."
I'm tired, so I'm not gonna talk about everything you mentioned right now, but I do have one thing to say.

Complex mechanics do not automatically equal good gameplay.

It is true that UD3's damage system is simpler, and there are some elements of randomness in there but it is within a realistic range (rocks are usually after 2, 3 or 4 heavy strikes, not in that order).

However, all of the depth that UFC 3 has is useless when it as sluggish, unresponsive and unpolished as it is and has some downright silly "balance" adjustments.

UFC Undisputed 3 feels the most realistic (true rock states on the ground, proper finish the fight, you can actually put someone out cold without 10+ knockdowns), it is completely responsive, it doesn't feel sluggish, everything is snappy and on a pure gameplay/controls perspective, it is superior by a mile.

Yes, the health system is linear. But even if it had a regenerative health system, the game would work just fine. As long as it didn't regen too fast (another problem that UFC 3 has). Plus, health regens between rounds so it's not like you get no improvement at all.

Gameplay and feel matters more than having tons of in-depth mechanics that don't feel good in the hands to use.

Oh, and in UD3, you can actually use strikes that your fighter uses IRL and have success at a high level. In UFC 3, literally everything, no matter what, is all based around the meta. There is no true realism in high level play. You are literally punished for trying to fight like your fighter. It turns into a pure fighting game in a sport which is inherently unbalanced and simply cannot and does not work like a fighting game.

For the record, I’m not saying it doesn't take skill. It takes incredible skill to be at the top of the leaderboards, but it just isn't realistic, and that's what bugs me. High level play should be realistic play, in my eyes.

One last note about flash KOs being random in UD3, this is not a bad thing since they are extremely rare and add another element of the sport which can't be properly added to the game without randomness. Vulnerability is not the solution as it stands in UFC 3, the peak power is WAY too high and it activates far too early (in the very early frames of a head kick/wheel kick where I basically haven't moved and I should take essentially the same damage that I would if I simply had my hands down).

I get the idea, but it is not right as it stands realism wise in UFC 3. Single shots need far more power, too. One clean Ngannou shot, vulnerability or not, should almost always rock me, knock me down or at least seriously hurt me. Defensive options would need to be improved and a move to more responsive controls would be a blessing too.

Look, if the devs don't want to make ranked play realistic as it should be, then please, at least give us a sim mode for offline and quick match. PLEASE.

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