Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

[BQ32]

Hoping to have this thread be dedicated to this aspect of the game. The new focus has been on the clinch, takedowns, and ground and pound but many of us love the striking aspect of MMA most or are long time boxing/Fight Night fans and if the striking isn't right, the game just won't cut it.

What do you guys think about where how it was in the beta vs 3? Where do you think it needs to improve? What would be a good balance for different fighters and strikers to be affective with different styles? How can they balance the online aspect and make it more realistic without constant slugfests and insane punch numbers and health events?

I will add my 2 cents later but am really interested in this community's take and how it aligns with my own opinions.

[SubmishMagish3]

Re: Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

Hoping to have this thread be dedicated to this aspect of the game. The new focus has been on the clinch, takedowns, and ground and pound but many of us love the striking aspect of MMA most or are long time boxing/Fight Night fans and if the striking isn't right, the game just won't cut it.

What do you guys think about where how it was in the beta vs 3? Where do you think it needs to improve? What would be a good balance for different fighters and strikers to be affective with different styles? How can they balance the online aspect and make it more realistic without constant slugfests and insane punch numbers and health events?

I will add my 2 cents later but am really interested in this community's take and how it aligns with my own opinions.

I believe it was pretty unanimous that stamina and damage were REALLY arcadey for the beta vs UFC 3 which was more realistic. This is super easy to tune though and will be different for release according to GPD. Hopefully they change it back to where it was with 3 at least, but ideally even more.

[Counter Punch]

Re: Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

There are so many “rules”/limitations to the striking that ultimately there end up being only 1 or 2 viable strategies to deal with any given thing, or it feels generally turn-based. It’s not organic, it’s not fluid, it’s not exciting. It’s frustrating and unintuitive and relies on studying frame data and arbitrary game mechanics to come up with a viable strategy to have any success. It can be fun when neither player really knows what they are doing, but once you realize what’s going on it becomes extremely repetitive. Things that should work are needlessly handicapped by the game, and just makes the striking generally a stale experience.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

There are so many “rules”/limitations to the striking that ultimately there end up being only 1 or 2 viable strategies to deal with any given thing, or it feels generally turn-based. It’s not organic, it’s not fluid, it’s not exciting. It’s frustrating and unintuitive and relies on studying frame data and arbitrary game mechanics to come up with a viable strategy to have any success. It can be fun when neither player really knows what they are doing, but once you realize what’s going on it becomes extremely repetitive. Things that should work are needlessly handicapped by the game, and just makes the striking generally a stale experience.

What specifically are you referring to because I dont agree with this assessment at all.

[Counter Punch]

Re: Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

What specifically are you referring to because I dont agree with this assessment at all.

Why don’t you post a clip of one of your fights?

[BQ32]

Re: Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

There are so many “rules”/limitations to the striking that ultimately there end up being only 1 or 2 viable strategies to deal with any given thing, or it feels generally turn-based. It’s not organic, it’s not fluid, it’s not exciting. It’s frustrating and unintuitive and relies on studying frame data and arbitrary game mechanics to come up with a viable strategy to have any success. It can be fun when neither player really knows what they are doing, but once you realize what’s going on it becomes extremely repetitive. Things that should work are needlessly handicapped by the game, and just makes the striking generally a stale experience.

I agree with this assessment completely. This exact feeling has led me to dump the last two games pretty early on in their life cycles for something else. When I first start playing after a long break or at the beginning I will use movement and sways, pick apart people from the outside and have quite a bit of fun, but once I start playing the experienced gamers, the real comp types you quickly realize that you can not treat the game like an actual boxing/kickboxing/mma stand up fight, instead you need to account for the lack of proper defensive options, how risky it actually is to use sways, which combo chains cannot be interrupted with certain punches, how to weather the combo so you can throw your own, which fighters to pick so as not to be at a complete disadvantage. The more knowledgeable the opponent the more repetitive the game feels and the more repetitive you have to play in order to compete properly.

[ApexGamerChannel]

Re: Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

There are so many “rules”/limitations to the striking that ultimately there end up being only 1 or 2 viable strategies to deal with any given thing, or it feels generally turn-based. It’s not organic, it’s not fluid, it’s not exciting. It’s frustrating and unintuitive and relies on studying frame data and arbitrary game mechanics to come up with a viable strategy to have any success. It can be fun when neither player really knows what they are doing, but once you realize what’s going on it becomes extremely repetitive. Things that should work are needlessly handicapped by the game, and just makes the striking generally a stale experience.

What game are you playing? Frame data in this game is so adenosine and convoluted by all the perks, stats, and move levels. Furthermore what fighting games do you play that a prevalent strategy doesn’t become the norm?


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Counter Punch]

Re: Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

What game are you playing? Frame data in this game is so adenosine and convoluted by all the perks, stats, and move levels. Furthermore what fighting games do you play that a prevalent strategy doesn’t become the norm?

Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

I’m trying to figure out what word you meant instead of adenosine but I can’t so I’ll just answer your second question.

I don’t play traditional fighting games. I actually hate them, for much of the same reasons that I listed above.

[Therebelyell626]

Re: Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

There are so many “rules”/limitations to the striking that ultimately there end up being only 1 or 2 viable strategies to deal with any given thing, or it feels generally turn-based. It’s not organic, it’s not fluid, it’s not exciting. It’s frustrating and unintuitive and relies on studying frame data and arbitrary game mechanics to come up with a viable strategy to have any success. It can be fun when neither player really knows what they are doing, but once you realize what’s going on it becomes extremely repetitive. Things that should work are needlessly handicapped by the game, and just makes the striking generally a stale experience.

Wow! This is actually the most accurate description of the striking in UFC 3 and 4 I have ever seen

And furthermore, I think EA saw the success mortal kombat was having in the e-sports world and tried to make UFC 3 more like an arcade fighter to attract those fans. I liked the striking in UFC 2 so much better sans parry’s and limited head movement. It just felt so much more responsive as oppose to I input 4 punch combo, you input 4 punch combo. UFC 3 just felt way to turn based which ultimately was one of the main reasons I dumped it after about 8 months

[NEWSS]

Re: Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

Some people really hate this game lol

Anything can be improved but I like the striking part of the game, I hope they won't make the stamina too forgiving

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Operation Sports mobile app

[ryangil23]

Re: Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

Something felt off to me in the beta with hit detection. Definitely looked like certain strikes should’ve been landing when they weren’t. I don’t know if they changed the “magnetic striking” as people called it and the so maybe you don’t sort of zip into them as much. Maybe the tracking has been changed as well.

[DaisukEasy]

Re: Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

It’s frustrating and unintuitive and relies on studying frame data and arbitrary game mechanics

The bold part is completely unavoidable. Not just in this game, but any decent game or even real life. Knowing 'frame data' is no different than understanding that your jab is quicker than your capoeira wheel kick due to physics.

Things that should work are needlessly handicapped by the game

Like what?

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

Why don’t you post a clip of one of your fights?

I have before but I don’t feel like digging up my old posts.

You made a pretty big claim and I’m trying to understand what exactly you’re referring to.

[UFC 1 2 3 4]

Re: Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

Like what?

Head movement.

[manliest_Man]

Re: Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

The bold part is completely unavoidable. Not just in this game, but any decent game or even real life. Knowing 'frame data' is no different than understanding that your jab is quicker than your capoeira wheel kick due to physics.





Like what?

The problem with EA UFC 3 was the way the frame data was handled.

For example you accidentally inputed a head kick in punching range and the game switches it to a body kick animation, instead of letting the physics determine where the original animation you inputed goes and your opponent hits you with a magnetic tracking/ultra fast & powerful 3-4 punch combo, and you are pretty much completely unresponsive and defendless to it. You just have to sit there and watch, instead of having a responsive block/head movement to recover from your mistakes.


As a result, every high level player, is super cautious not to throw anything dangerous, because regardless of the opponent's fighter, they were able to matrix dodge every power strike, then lock you into a no stamina/unresponsive state to get counter striked. That's why everyone picks the short fighters with good boxxing, so they can stay glued on to you and throw the fastest combos thanks to the frame data manipulation.

Most exchanges were initated with the same combos and the meta was always to tire your opponent out with mini-swaying and light body shots(after they had their turn throwing their combo at your block), just so that the under the hood mechanics, would make your combos too fast for theirs to ever stand a chance and since combos was the only viable aggresive option and the only way to make you feel dangerous against someone, you ended up with a fight riddled with a dozen rocking states and knockdowns, occuring mostly from combos and a lot of unrealistic counter striking.

If your opponent initiates a super fast combo, you just have to wait it out and hold the Block or perform an unrealistic head Dodge, that leaves their fighter unresponsive as if it was EA UFC's 2 Parrying.

Another example you play as Adesanya and you miss a spinning kick, then your stamina drops from 100% to 10% then you get hit by a super fast 3-4 punch combo from Nick Diaz, unable to perform any action to recover from your mistake and you have to stand there with your fighter frozen and watch them take a beating, then drop dead.

Exchanges like that, make it feel turn based striking. The way boxxing felt in EA UFC 3, is pretty horrible now that I think about it. Despite being good at the game and knowing most of the metas/frame data, I didn't enjoy the lack of realism and the game/arcadey mechanics it had going for it.

EA UFC 2, despite being pretty shallow compared to EA UFC 3, at least it was mostly leaning on the physics of striking, instead of the under the hood mechanics, speeding strikes up, that forced people to play a certain way and initiate their assults with the same combos, regardless of what fighter they pick.
EA UFC 2's shortcommings, were mostly from the lack of moving forward strikes to persue someone/ lack of power strikes and combo based striking with limiting parrys that locked you in an unresponsive state.