Endless Piggy Back, Clinching and takedown spam

[Windtear]

Dear dev team,

1st I give you a lot of credits to the free flow movement and strike system overhaul, this is the 1st time in 4 games where it's not turn based combat in physics loop.

But on grappling & clinching, why is so hard to grasp that if a move/system that is too easy to execute and too efficient to do damage, then it needs a proper counter or be properly punished if spammed too many times?

Take down and clinching at moment are nearly impossible to defend when most player's 1 finger always at the button, unless it's a wrestling & BJJ sim, where you only expect your opponent to do take downs. or any spammer can mix it up and always success at take down attempt. Do you have an internal data tracking system to see the success rate of takedowns in your game? if not, I suggest to add one

And why R2 R1 submission is so easy to success on offenders side? whenever offender failed one attempt, why there's no stamina penalty added(as in real life)? this submission is extremely easy to success and very spammable.

[Trillz]

Re: Endless Piggy Back, Clinching and takedown spam

alot of tuning is needed

[micmuted]

Re: Endless Piggy Back, Clinching and takedown spam

That sounds absolutely miserable to play against. Glad I didn’t buy the game til these issues are fixed

[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: Endless Piggy Back, Clinching and takedown spam

You write this as if you have no options against the clinch. You can punish your opponent both during the attempt and after you've been grabbed. Sure, things about the clinch could be improved, but you're not just a helpless victim.

UFC 4 is a lot more forgiving to the defender than the last game was. The only difference is that most people just held you against the cage before, but now they can hurt you quickly if given the opportunity.

Anticipate their grabs, move your head, and make them pay! Or better yet, take the fight where you want it. Most players who clinch repeatedly are garbage. Since they feel it's an easy way to inflict damage and you can't stop them, they're not going to change their approach. Take them down, or do something other than what you're doing.

As a fight ender, the clinch is only useful if your opponent is already hurt. You're not going to get KO'd from one knee. With that in mind, stay patient and don't freak out every time you get grabbed. Also, you can always mix in your own clinch every now and then just to let them know they can get the same treatment. This often slows them down a lot.

The LT+RT submissions are very well-tuned, IMO. I think I've been submitted once since the game was released. I mentioned it in another thread, but stamina management is VERY important with subs. If your transitions are getting denied before the sub attempt, you're making it much easier for them to finish you. Don't give them a freebie, stay patient. Dudes just slap on subs without thinking, it's easy to escape them.

We have tools in this game... use them. You also have to stay level-headed, not get emotional during tough spots, and try to figure out what you can do to fix your situation. It can't always be a matter of pointing the finger elsewhere.

And sometimes, your opponent is just better than you. Accept that, move on to the next fight, and take lessons from the L's.

[Morgan Monkman]

Re: Endless Piggy Back, Clinching and takedown spam

Finally played the game yesterday, what a laughable joke. Seriously, no wonder GPD bailed. The writing is on the wall!!

[BigSmoke]

Re: Endless Piggy Back, Clinching and takedown spam

Lol I played one the other day, I had full cardio and my opponent jumped on my back and completely drained my cardio whilst having none.

It was at that point I realized this game is even more broken, unfinished and rushed out the door

Thank god I didn't pay a dime for this piece of crap game though hahaha

[Morgan Monkman]

Re: Endless Piggy Back, Clinching and takedown spam

I didn’t think EA could have a worse release then battlefield 4, then this dev team came along and said hold my beer.

[Heartsoreswine1994]

Re: Endless Piggy Back, Clinching and takedown spam

You write this as if you have no options against the clinch. You can punish your opponent both during the attempt and after you've been grabbed. Sure, things about the clinch could be improved, but you're not just a helpless victim.

UFC 4 is a lot more forgiving to the defender than the last game was. The only difference is that most people just held you against the cage before, but now they can hurt you quickly if given the opportunity.

Anticipate their grabs, move your head, and make them pay! Or better yet, take the fight where you want it. Most players who clinch repeatedly are garbage. Since they feel it's an easy way to inflict damage and you can't stop them, they're not going to change their approach. Take them down, or do something other than what you're doing.

As a fight ender, the clinch is only useful if your opponent is already hurt. You're not going to get KO'd from one knee. With that in mind, stay patient and don't freak out every time you get grabbed. Also, you can always mix in your own clinch every now and then just to let them know they can get the same treatment. This often slows them down a lot.

The LT+RT submissions are very well-tuned, IMO. I think I've been submitted once since the game was released. I mentioned it in another thread, but stamina management is VERY important with subs. If your transitions are getting denied before the sub attempt, you're making it much easier for them to finish you. Don't give them a freebie, stay patient. Dudes just slap on subs without thinking, it's easy to escape them.

We have tools in this game... use them. You also have to stay level-headed, not get emotional during tough spots, and try to figure out what you can do to fix your situation. It can't always be a matter of pointing the finger elsewhere.

And sometimes, your opponent is just better than you. Accept that, move on to the next fight, and take lessons from the L's.

>held against the cage was worst.

thats just wrong. if you got pinned and successfully denied takedown attempts you would drain the opponents stamina, this was the balance.

>just dodge it bro

do you realise how risky that can be against a good player? you are just setting yourself up for hooks and cant be punished as easy as say slipping a jab, they can usually get their block back up unless its timed perfectly

>just do the same thing back to them or take them down

look OP is just bringing up an issue with the game im sure he doesnt want to just start doing the same thing he thinks is cheesy and broken back to him.
there should be counters and moves to do, that punish a certain playstyle other than resorting to the same tactic. do we want to just end up with another knee elbow problem again?

stop just shooting down peoples criticisms and inputs on whats wrong with the game. basically saying to people ''get gud'' is not the answer. this game would just remain the same otherwise.

[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: Endless Piggy Back, Clinching and takedown spam

>held against the cage was worst.

thats just wrong. if you got pinned and successfully denied takedown attempts you would drain the opponents stamina, this was the balance.

>just dodge it bro

do you realise how risky that can be against a good player? you are just setting yourself up for hooks and cant be punished as easy as say slipping a jab, they can usually get their block back up unless its timed perfectly

>just do the same thing back to them or take them down

look OP is just bringing up an issue with the game im sure he doesnt want to just start doing the same thing he thinks is cheesy and broken back to him.
there should be counters and moves to do, that punish a certain playstyle other than resorting to the same tactic. do we want to just end up with another knee elbow problem again?

stop just shooting down peoples criticisms and inputs on whats wrong with the game. basically saying to people ''get gud'' is not the answer. this game would just remain the same otherwise.

Don't paraphrase me and then make your rebuttal based on how you wrote it. At least quote me accurately.

1. "Held against the cage was worst." I mentioned people holding you against the cage in UFC 3 to contrast the options that we have in this game. People complained about the clinch because it was such a static and uninteresting position. Whether you feel that there should be more stamina drain in the clinch in UFC 4 is something else to talk about, but that's not where I was going with that.

2. "Just dodge it bro." No, I said move your head. All you have to do is flick the stick to avoid getting grabbed. So if your opponent is being predictable you can anticipate that. And while dodging and swaying is another discussion, both of those are effective tools as well. Like everything else in this game, you can't do them willy nilly and expect to have great results. But that's what it seems like a lot of you want.

3. "Just do the same thing back to them or take them down." You guys realize this is an MMA game right? You play this **** under some false illusion that everyone should fight you in the way that you see fit. I didn't say become a super spammer, I said mix in clinches and takedowns. I don't understand why that doesn't make sense.

Minus having lag or someone timing their clinches very well, getting grabbed shouldn't be a death sentence. Do something to better your situation. Use all of the tools that you have available.

And before you say that I'm some sort of cheeser, that's far from the case. I've just played this game enough and have had enough success to know that a lot of what you guys complain isn't the sky falling.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Endless Piggy Back, Clinching and takedown spam

Don't paraphrase me and then make your rebuttal based on how you wrote it. At least quote me accurately.

1. "Held against the cage was worst." I mentioned people holding you against the cage in UFC 3 to contrast the options that we have in this game. People complained about the clinch because it was such a static and uninteresting position. Whether you feel that there should be more stamina drain in the clinch in UFC 4 is something else to talk about, but that's not where I was going with that.

2. "Just dodge it bro." No, I said move your head. All you have to do is flick the stick to avoid getting grabbed. So if your opponent is being predictable you can anticipate that. And while dodging and swaying is another discussion, both of those are effective tools as well. Like everything else in this game, you can't do them willy nilly and expect to have great results. But that's what it seems like a lot of you want.

3. "Just do the same thing back to them or take them down." You guys realize this is an MMA game right? You play this **** under some false illusion that everyone should fight you in the way that you see fit. I didn't say become a super spammer, I said mix in clinches and takedowns. I don't understand why that doesn't make sense.

Minus having lag or someone timing their clinches very well, getting grabbed shouldn't be a death sentence. Do something to better your situation. Use all of the tools that you have available.

And before you say that I'm some sort of cheeser, that's far from the case. I've just played this game enough and have had enough success to know that a lot of what you guys complain isn't the sky falling.

Be careful talking sense on this board. They’ll turn on you real quick. I give it a week before my two best followers start calling you a troll.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[NEWSS]

Re: Endless Piggy Back, Clinching and takedown spam

Clinch spam is a problem right now, too easy and effective to spam and too little risky in terms of stamina depletion and possible counters, I thought we all agreed with that.
The fact that I can do it back and initiate it first is little consolation because the fights turn into clinch fests.

It needs risk/reward balancing imo

https://youtu.be/7uIoDQlk37k

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Operation Sports mobile app

[BigSmoke]

Re: Endless Piggy Back, Clinching and takedown spam

stop just shooting down peoples criticisms and inputs on whats wrong with the game. basically saying to people ''get gud'' is not the answer. this game would just remain the same otherwise.

This has been a theme on these boards for along time. You will have players that come in and defend a super unrealistic cheesy strategy simply because it works for them.

LOL do you remember ea ufc 3 how you could choke someone get into side control land 1 elbow and KO someone? Super unrealistic, kind of cheesy and you have never seen it once in a real fight, but idiots still defended it as if it was something very realistic you see in a fight. Hahaha

[Blackman316]

Re: Endless Piggy Back, Clinching and takedown spam

Maybe you should be more like the AI. I've never been able to piggyback a single time on the AI. They always counter. Given that they aren't programmed to respond to fakes and just counter it before you can even cancel, there's not much else to do but save your stamina and just ride out the position with some strikes.

LOL do you remember ea ufc 3 how you could choke someone get into side control land 1 elbow and KO someone? Super unrealistic, kind of cheesy and you have never seen it once in a real fight, but idiots still defended it as if it was something very realistic you see in a fight. Hahaha

At least they fixed thàt. After all the tweaks and patches the game had, it's quite baffling that this was still a thing. I think now you only lose some stamina, which is fine I guess.

[BQ32]

Re: Endless Piggy Back, Clinching and takedown spam

The clinch spam is indeed the biggest issue with the game right now for a couple of reasons. First there is no increased vulnerability which there absolutely should be as your reaching your arm out grabbing while not protecting yourself or bracing for an impact. Increased vulnerability would both be realistic and a way balance out the spam, it would instantly become risky to spam it. Secondly is strikes not interrupting the clinch attempt. This combined with no extra vulnerability means a player can just spam clinch attempts right through successive punches, even hooks. Regardless of what some say, right now it is not balanced.

[iHazCode]

Re: Endless Piggy Back, Clinching and takedown spam

I don’t think the answer is to nerf clinch strikes (though I just got killed by a spammer), I think the real answer is to make other strikes do correct damage.
Honestly in this game clinch and GNP strikes are the only in the game that come close to truly representing the sport. The rest seems like a metaphorical pillow fight.

Step one:
Increase stamina tax globally by 50%

Step two:
Increase strike damage from other aspects by 60%

Step three:
Label it realism/legacy/or hell UD3 mode

Step four:
#Profit!