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Old 08-08-2021, 12:47 PM   #1
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Darce Choke

The Darce has gotta be one of the most high percentage chokes in modern MMA. We see so many Darce finishes in the UFC these days.

The weird thing to me, is that in the entirety of the EA UFC series, the only place to go for a Darce is Bottom Side Control, which just seems super bizarre to me.

IRL you usually go for the Darce when in Top Half Guard, and the opponent on bottom goes for an underhook, which opens up your space to shoot the Darce.

Example: Woodley vs Till

Then also, obviously from Top Sprawl, where we see them most from guys like Ferguson and Luque.



I'm just here to ask why we can't shoot Darces from the positions you actually shoot Darces IRL?
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Old 08-08-2021, 04:21 PM   #2
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Re: Darce Choke

I swear to God I remember being able to do a D'Arce from top sprawl. Pretty sure it was in one of the EA games too. But I could be dreaming.
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Old 09-05-2021, 02:00 PM   #3
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Re: Darce Choke

Another Darce choke last night. Seeing Darce's all the time lately, and never from sub side control, lol.
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Old 09-05-2021, 02:14 PM   #4
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Re: Darce Choke

Found this video.


Top Sprawl: 6

Top Half: 3

Back Side: 3

That's all the Darce chokes in this video.
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Old 09-08-2021, 09:49 AM   #5
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Re: Darce Choke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haz____
Found this video.


Top Sprawl: 6

Top Half: 3

Back Side: 3

That's all the Darce chokes in this video.
Notice how there is not a single Darce from sub side control.
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Old 09-13-2021, 04:26 PM   #6
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Re: Darce Choke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haz____
The Darce has gotta be one of the most high percentage chokes in modern MMA. We see so many Darce finishes in the UFC these days.

The weird thing to me, is that in the entirety of the EA UFC series, the only place to go for a Darce is Bottom Side Control, which just seems super bizarre to me.

IRL you usually go for the Darce when in Top Half Guard, and the opponent on bottom goes for an underhook, which opens up your space to shoot the Darce.

Example: Woodley vs Till

Then also, obviously from Top Sprawl, where we see them most from guys like Ferguson and Luque.



I'm just here to ask why we can't shoot Darces from the positions you actually shoot Darces IRL?
This is a really good question so I'll try to give you a good answer.

The rationale for adding the D'Arce from side control bottom is primarily about balancing gameplay. We wanted to provide a submission from as many positions as possible as providing both players options allows for more variation in strategy. D'Arce control from bottom side control is often one of the first submissions taught from that position in BJJ and even though it is not necessarily a high percentage submission it is often used to get your opponent to do something differently and open up an opportunity to escape. We decided it was the best choice to fill out that spot in our game for the same reason.

You are correct that it is more commonly applied from the other positions you listed, however there is a cost to adding a submission to any position and those positions were already covered by other submissions. I still recall the conversations we had around sprawl and adding the D'Arce there, however we felt that the Japanese and Peruvian neckties deserved some love and were uniquely made for sprawl.

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Old 09-14-2021, 08:44 AM   #7
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Re: Darce Choke

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Originally Posted by TapOrSnap
The rationale for adding the D'Arce from side control bottom is primarily about balancing gameplay. We wanted to provide a submission from as many positions as possible as providing both players options allows for more variation in strategy. D'Arce control from bottom side control is often one of the first submissions taught from that position in BJJ and even though it is not necessarily a high percentage submission it is often used to get your opponent to do something differently and open up an opportunity to escape. We decided it was the best choice to fill out that spot in our game for the same reason.
I love the idea that submissions could be used as pseudo-transitions but historically EA UFC games have punished failed submission attempts by giving the defender a superior position. Wasn't sub cancelling introduced post-launch for UFC 4?

Regardless, I hope UFC 5's grappling design follows this philosophy.
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Old 09-14-2021, 02:31 PM   #8
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Re: Darce Choke

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Originally Posted by tomitomitomi
I love the idea that submissions could be used as pseudo-transitions but historically EA UFC games have punished failed submission attempts by giving the defender a superior position. Wasn't sub cancelling introduced post-launch for UFC 4?

Regardless, I hope UFC 5's grappling design follows this philosophy.
Cancelling out of a submission which has already been initiated is not the only way a submission transition can be used to work towards a better position. Having an additional transition increases the chance that your opponent misreads the transition and denies the wrong direction additionally submission initiations can also be feinted.

In general I agree with you that we should have the D'Arce in more positions. During a given development cycle we have a limited number of time slots in the motion capture studio so we always want to capture the things that will deliver the greatest improvement in the gameplay experience, sometimes that's a new grapple position or submission, other times it's a new standup striking set. I think the additional D'Arce chokes have typically fallen on the losing side of the "Players want A but players want B more." discussion. However those items typically make their way to the winning side eventually.

Regards
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