Takedowns --- Need a Buff?

[Kenetic NRG]

Quote: Originally Posted by Find_the_Door

Please no shine or stick rocking for takedowns. Don't wanna burn through controllers. They need a new takedown system that accounts for momentum, balance etc. How about something like hold down on the right stick initially and alternate both triggers? When you plant your foot to counter (trigger) you have to use your hands (right stick) to defend on the opposing side opposite of your foot plant (trigger pull). When you commit to a direction you run the risk of giving up an instant takedown, or getting out. If the shooter runs out of stamina they collapse into sprawl, or give up their back. If the shooter lets up on a takedown with a lot of stamina they can break, otherwise if they let up late but not at zero stamina they end up in over under (ie stand up from the shoot). Depending on the side they're driving you is the trigger that commands the press. During these struggles you have opportunities for submissions, reversals, sprawls, strikes (Browne). This would allow for two things - the opponent is driven back into the cage if the shooter wants to risk using all that stamina on the shoot. The defender can stuff it, but they run the risk of getting driven back. Becomes a risk reward stamina game. Thoughts?

This game consists of casuals. It's silly to me when people ask for advanced mechanics like this when 90% of the player base picks up the game a few times and is done with it. The game needs to be complicated to a dedicated player but at the same time simple to a casual player.

The TD system is completely fine in terms of balance. People just need to learn how to slip efficiently to gain GA.

[Find_the_Door]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kenetic NRG

This game consists of casuals. It's silly to me when people ask for advanced mechanics like this when 90% of the player base picks up the game a few times and is done with it. The game needs to be complicated to a dedicated player but at the same time simple to a casual player. The TD system is completely fine in terms of balance. People just need to learn how to slip efficiently to gain GA.

I do slip effectively. It looks silly. It's a cookie cutter TD system. Nothing silly about asking for a semi realistic depiction of the sport. I can understand how your cheese wouldn't exactly translate into such a game, but that's no reason to dismiss an idea.

[Boiler569]

Quote: Originally Posted by neyney00

Standing takedowns need a buff for sure. Then make it a little easier to defend takedowns in single collar to balance out. Then take the current denial window for single collar and make it that window for double under. Then takedowns are perfect.

i like it

Quote: Originally Posted by SisterRay

I'm having success mixing up sc clinch with takedown attempts, usually they fear the the clinch then that's when I go in for the TD, if they are against the cage that's even better due to GA

yes this is one of the only legit ways to get standing TDs in my opinion (i.e. you've already clinched with the guy a few times; he's paranoid; you shoot in and he denies the clinch, not the TD)

Quote: Originally Posted by WarMMA

You'll just get kicked in the face for sure. The hit detection is off too. Sometimes you can time a shot well and you know you shot right after they swung and you still get hit AFTER the guy swings and misses. With the shooting td's they need to go under strikes and not be able to get hit by any and everything someone is throwing. If a guy is timing his shots well he should never be hit after the person swings and misses. Also like you said, shooting in on someone that is in the middle of swinging a big strike or kicking should almost always result in an auto td, much like that td that happens when you shoot on a guy doing a spinning strike. Takedowns definitely need a little work done.

yup hit detection is a major culprit

[Boiler569]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kenetic NRG

This game consists of casuals. It's silly to me when people ask for advanced mechanics like this when 90% of the player base picks up the game a few times and is done with it. The game needs to be complicated to a dedicated player but at the same time simple to a casual player. The TD system is completely fine in terms of balance. People just need to learn how to slip efficiently to gain GA.

I call BS on this one I don't care if you're 300-0 or whatever on live event lol

If only because once you slip to gain GA --- by the time you are able to go from leaning back to TD attempt --- all it takes is a little jab to the body to stop your TD cold in its tracks. (Usually due to poor hit detection!)

More importantly IMO --- stamina needs to make a much bigger impact. If someone has 25% stamina and I have 100% stamina...assuming equal stats...should be almost NO WAY my takedown attempt is denied. That is definitely not how it is in this game right now.

Also --- they can easily make a SIMPLE takedown system that has another layer or two of complexity for advanced players.

Look at the 'perfect swoop' mechanic as an example. Vast majority of casuals probably don't even know about it, let alone use it...but they are able to score TDs and make transitions without that knowledge.

But using this mechanic can mean the difference between a W and an L for a top, top level fighter. Where one reversal, or a slight sliver of stamina, means everything.

What FTD came up with is a step in the right direction I think --- take a *LITTLE* bit of the interactivity of the shining method; but bring in a lot more nuance/skill/timing to the equation, rather than a button mashing/controller shining mini-game

Just b/c we look down on the casuals doesn't mean we need to build the game to their level! lol I agree we need to make it simple on the surface but it needs to be deep and balanced for the top 5% fighters as well

[WarMMA]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kenetic NRG

This game consists of casuals. It's silly to me when people ask for advanced mechanics like this when 90% of the player base picks up the game a few times and is done with it. The game needs to be complicated to a dedicated player but at the same time simple to a casual player. The TD system is completely fine in terms of balance. People just need to learn how to slip efficiently to gain GA.

I agree to a point, but I wouldn't say it's completely fine. There is also still hit detection issues. There have been times I timed td's well and shot in right after the guy swings and his strike still registers as a hit, even though he clearly misses. That kind of thing kills balance right there.

[TheSouthpaw]

There definitely should be a new system for takedowns in place for future titles.

Right now the takedown system has basically 4 options when someone shoots in:
1.) Push away 2.) Get Underhooks 3.) Sprawl 4.) Get taken down

The lack of a struggle to take someone down is a pretty big gameplay feature to overlook.
The ability to drive the opponent into the cage, chain takedown attempts, and transition from shooting to clinching would have a huge impact on gameplay.

Not only that, there should be more types of takedowns and takedown animations in general, it's pretty boring watching the same takedowns over and over again. Double leg and single leg positions in open space and against the cage should definitely be in the next game.

-----------
Side note:

I feel like for EA UFC 3 the power doubles and singles should be much harder to hit in open space. There should be much more of an emphasis of driving an opponent into the cage and finishing td's from there.

I hope EA UFC 3 in general focuses much more on the cage, it a pretty big deal.

[SisterRay]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheSouthpaw

There definitely should be a new system for takedowns in place for future titles. Right now the takedown system has basically 4 options when someone shoots in: 1.) Push away 2.) Get Underhooks 3.) Sprawl 4.) Get taken down The lack of a struggle to take someone down is a pretty big gameplay feature to overlook. The ability to drive the opponent into the cage, chain takedown attempts, and transition from shooting to clinching would have a huge impact on gameplay. Not only that, there should be more types of takedowns and takedown animations in general, it's pretty boring watching the same takedowns over and over again. Double leg and single leg positions in open space and against the cage should definitely be in the next game. ----------- Side note: I feel like for EA UFC 3 the power doubles and singles should be much harder to hit in open space. There should be much more of an emphasis of driving an opponent into the cage and finishing td's from there. I hope EA UFC 3 in general focuses much more on the cage, it a pretty big deal.

Yeah, you're describing my dream mma game. Battle for control on the cage for takedowns. Animations where it looks like the guys is trying to desperately take it down. Allowing the defender to rain down elbows to defend takedown attempts etc. etc.

[Haz____]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheSouthpaw

There definitely should be a new system for takedowns in place for future titles. Right now the takedown system has basically 4 options when someone shoots in: 1.) Push away 2.) Get Underhooks 3.) Sprawl 4.) Get taken down The lack of a struggle to take someone down is a pretty big gameplay feature to overlook. The ability to drive the opponent into the cage, chain takedown attempts, and transition from shooting to clinching would have a huge impact on gameplay. Not only that, there should be more types of takedowns and takedown animations in general, it's pretty boring watching the same takedowns over and over again. Double leg and single leg positions in open space and against the cage should definitely be in the next game. ----------- Side note: I feel like for EA UFC 3 the power doubles and singles should be much harder to hit in open space. There should be much more of an emphasis of driving an opponent into the cage and finishing td's from there. I hope EA UFC 3 in general focuses much more on the cage, it a pretty big deal.

Amazing post. Really spot on. Everything you're saying is right on point.