A Study of Submissions

[Phillyboi207]

What about submission ratings?

[ZHunter1990]

Good find! Im impressed!

I remember talking with GPD months before the release of UFC2 about sub entries being stamina based, GA based ir a mix of both.

Glad to see someone pick up on the difference between sub attempts.

[Generative James]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brettf84

Thanks for the info. Also worth noting if your opponent escapes on the final gate of a anaconda you end up in full mount bottom but if they escaped the final gate on a guillotine you end up in full mount top

Ahh, now this was something interesting I hadn't considered. So I gave it a quick look. And who knows how different this actually is from fighter to fighter, but I stuck with Urijah subbing Cruz for my tests.

For Guillotine Escapes:

Cruz escapes before 1st Gate - Sprawl Top (No change)
Cruz escapes before 2nd Gate - Side Control Bottom (Urijah is swept!)
Cruz escapes before 3rd Gate - North/South Bottom (Urijah is swept!)
Cruz escapes before 4th Gate - Mount Top (Urijah advances top position)
Cruz escapes before 5th Gate - 1/2 Guard Top (Urijah changes top position)

For Anaconda Escapes:

Cruz escapes before 1st Gate - Sprawl Top (No change)
Cruz escapes before 2nd Gate - Side Control Bottom (Urijah is swept!)
Cruz escapes before 3rd Gate - North/South Bottom (Urijah is swept!) / Side Control Bottom (Urijah is swept!)

In the animation between the 2nd and 3rd gate, Urijah hooks his foot behind Cruz's calf, taking control of his lower body. I believe, if Cruz escapes before his leg is hooked, it ends in Side Control, but after the leg is hooked, it ends in North/South. Either way, it's a sweep.

There are probably many variations not on this list but I'd wager a guess that though the position itself may change, whether your on top or bottom remains the same.

But the bottom line here seems to be...

If you don't finish the submission, you're more likely to lose top position with the Anaconda.

[Generative James]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phillyboi207

What about submission ratings?

Yeah, taking submission ratings into account would have exponentially increased the time to do this and it took plenty long enough already.

However, based on my findings here, I'd feel comfortable taking a guess at the algorithm inside the mini-game.

Urijah has a Choke Submission rating of 98. This number probably determines the base length of time between his Advancement Gates for all submissions. Then this number is assigned to each specific gate for that submission and each one modified by the individual Submission Move Level, though it appears not by much. Those are the length of times between each Advancement Gate at full stamina, but then the lengths are increased according to current stamina depletion.

Cruz has a Choke Defence rating of 94. This number probably determines the base speed his Escape Gates will travel for all submissions, but then the speeds are decreased according to current stamina depletion.

Outside the mini-game, they may have no effect at all. But those are just guesses.

[Generative James]

Quote: Originally Posted by ZHunter1990

Good find! Im impressed! I remember talking with GPD months before the release of UFC2 about sub entries being stamina based, GA based ir a mix of both. Glad to see someone pick up on the difference between sub attempts.

Thanks!

I'm already starting to see the larger implications of BJJ transitions being more effected by Grapple Advantage and wrestling transitions being more effected by stamina. Most notably the wrestling level 1 sweep from Back Side Bottom to Back Side Top almost always works when you have a stamina advantage, even if the opponent has already demonstrated they know how to block it easily.

Now, I'm on the look out for more obvious examples.

[trainbyday1]

Amazing post sir. Very well done.

[CAPTAINKUKAMUNGA]

Quote: Originally Posted by Generative James

Thanks for the support guys! Knowing there are other people who may actually be interested in this stuff gives me the motivation to follow my curiosity.

fair play to you for taking the time to do all this stuff very helpfull the devs could use you on they,re team for the tutorials

[SUGATA]

Nice post!
Have you tested Perfect Swoop effect on Submission (i dont think it could increase initiation speed because PS performs on meter's end, so the question is more about time between adv gates and escape gates speed)?