EA UFC 2 has an awesome dynamic Grappling mechanics:
1. Awesome Ground game which uses the full Grappling mechanics.
2. Good but not enough Clinch game which uses a part of Grappling mechanics. Check this for Clinch issues to easily fix/evolve it for EA UFC 3:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...-fix-them.html
But
The main EA UFC 1-2 issue – is Stand up striking game. It is a coin with 2 sides:
1. Attack = Striking, check my “NEW Stand-up STRIKING mechanics for EA UFC 3 (concept, ideas, discussions)”:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...scussions.html
2. Defense = Sway, Parries, Footwork/Footsy (Dodges, Side steps, Walking, Run).
This thread is about this 2<sup>nd</sup> side of the coin.
LEGEND:
Dash = Dodge: BWD/FWD
Side step = Lunge: L/R
Yomi = Mind game (learn your opponent to predict his next move to counter it). 3<sup>rd</sup> level Yomi – counter to opponent’s counter to your move (trap to the trap). Read Sirlin work, talent game designer (this is the Rule how to make good fighting game):
GDA - grapple DIS advantage
GA - grapple advantage
With these 2 threads (Attack and Defense) the system becomes fully complete, this a COMPLEX mechanics, where every its element take its role for the gameplay’ depth, yomi and balance.
I. SWAY mechanics:
1) EA UFC 2 Sway PROS (save it):
1. FWD add GA, BWD add GDA
2. FWD add received dmg bonus
3. BWD add received Body dmg bonus
2) EA UFC 2 Sway CONS (needs to be to fixed):
1. Bug which is breaking counter strike after Sway:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...way-click.html
2. Control input issues which restricts its fast and tight usage:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...2-how-fix.html
3. Strike tracking against Sways needs to be nerfed to buff sway.
4. Needs to buff Left/Right sway effeciency - must to become a tool for evading half circular Head strikes if away the strike.
+
must to get received dmg bonus (like 1.10 lunges) is toward the strike.
5. Needs to allow Sway strike (sway off strike) - strike from sway position, w/o (as we have now) returning to initial state and only then strike begins, which opens us for getting hit from follow up opponent's strike = difficult to counter from sway successfully).
6. Make quicker initial startup animation of Sway (more evasive on start).
7. Wrong command layout (by L2+RS)– it prevents quick Sway perform as it must to be. restricts sway usage.
3) The most important – CHANGE SWAY INPUT LAYOUT:
Now to perform sway we need to hold L2 + click/hold RS.
Cons:
- can not to move and close distance while performing/using Sway
- slower input
- not ergonomical/difficult input for Head strikes and strikes which are using LS (hooks and uppercuts) because you need to release L2 for this before strike input (more fails).
> How to change:
RS – Sway (w/o any buttons to activate it).
L1 + RS – Clinch attempts (Left – OU, Right – SC, Up – MT, Down – DU)
L2 + RS – TD/Throw attempts (Left – DL, Right – SL, Up – Power SL, Down Power DL).
Now in EA UFC 2 RS up/down are not using at all, terrible slots loosing! This will fix it.
So, now we can walk/dash/side steps by LS and perform sways FREELY by RS. BUT LS walking speed during already performing Sway must to be slowest (as we have now on tilted a bit LS)!
I though this will be difficult to implement but this is possible w/o loosing other features.
Effects from this Sway input change:
1. The main – possible to Sway + walking toward the opponent = slowly closing distance (LS) with keeping defense with offense opportunity (LS continuously Left<>Right)(because L/R sway is an offensive sway in my system which allow a huge side counter). This is a Mike Tyson “Peek-a-Bo” boxing style and a tool for Short reach fighters to become a threat.
With current sway input this is impossible, with my Sway input it becomes more realistic and balanced for short reach fighters.
Possible to Sway with keep Walking in ANY direction (toward, away, side) - more defense possibilities:
2. Quicker, more intuitively and more ergonomical Sway input. Sway must to become the main in place defense tool, not a Parry.
3. Balance and pros for Short reach fighters
4. Power TD attempts now uses only ONE button modifier instead of 2 (L2+L1) – more ergonomical.
This new SWAY INPUT as i said allows us to input ALL types of Takedowns/Clinches from ONE button modifiers (L2 for TD, L1 for Clinch).
We could use it to evolve Dynamic Grappling mechanics by creating Takedown Switch mechanics.
LEGEND:
TM - transition meter
TD - take down
DL - double leg TD
SL - single leg TD
GB - Grapple block
TAKEDOWN SWITCH (in Stand up and Clinch state):
L2 + RS (keep holding RS to filling up TM) - Takedown attempt
Input:
Takedown switch DL to SL:
[on concrete TM section, for ex from 16:00 to 20:00] attacker can swoop (circling w/o releasing RS) from bwd (DL) to fwd (SL) and continue to keep holding RS (release RS - cancel TD attempt) > will switch TD DL to SL and starts filling up TM from 0.
Just releasing TD attempt (release RS) must to give Striking advantage (check my New striking mechanics thread in mt threads list):
<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/oQlAok51tFw" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>
Defense: will need to Grapple block on new SL TD as vs standard TD, BUT (any type 1st initial TD is deniaed by R2+RS down) switched 2nd TD must to be denied by its input direction (fwd for DL, bwd for SL, and (may be! disputed) up for Power SL, down for Power DL or the same as not power versions i.e. 50/50).
Effects from TS Switch mechanics:
+ 1st DL TD - is a Fake transition which provoke opponent to Blank or Wrong GB > guarantee follow up DL TD
+ harder to deny 2nd TD because needs right input (50/50).
+ defense against pro wrestler 2nd switched TD is difficult so you will be wanting to GB his 1st TD (R2+RS down) so you will be forced even to hold R2+RS down for pre-emptive TD denial, which opens up you for strikes (no block).
- TD Switch costs more stamina
- TD Switch is available only for few fighters not all (professional wrestlers)
- successful deny of 2nd switched TD moving attacker to a more disadvantage position (not sprawl but sub back side control for ex).
control for ex).
Important! Temporary GA does not transfer from initial 1st TD to 2nd switched TD (it does not have temporary GA bonus, only permanent GA like grappling attributes), so IF you have large GA don't go to TD switch, IF you don't have GA or have GDA go to TD switch aiming for forcing opponent to Blank or Wrong GB!
Resume: Takedown switch based on new input layout will dramatically increase depth, diversity and strategy of TD grappling in stand up/clinch.
We can dispute here which versona of TD Switch are possible in the game:
1) DL to SL:
<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Fb6Vn7SsB3g" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>
2) SL to DL:
<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nD7NYRVdjsA" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>
3) Power TD to standard or Standard to Power TD - disputable, based on how it exist in real life mma.
4) DIFFERENT SWAY HAS ITS OWN Pros and Cons:
- Check lower section.
II. BALANCE between DIFFERENT DEFENSE elements by +/- for EVERY element:
What is the most usable Sway? Bwd
How often do you use other sway direction sways especially left right? Rare
How often do you use Dash and Side step? Mid or rare because this is high risk/low reward especially now after 1.10
I have an idea how to bring balance and depth into all Defensive elements (this + and – are discussable, so please use this thread to change +/- between different elements but with explanation of your thoughts).
DASHES (aka footwork) are one of the most important element in stand up irl and must to be in the game.
But
The current state dashes and side steps are very not reliable tool:
1. slow initial phase
2. input delay
3. not balanced in pros/cons proportions
How to fix and evolve them for EA UFC 3:
1. faster initial phase
2. w/o input delay
3. They must have 2 phases: 1st - initial startup invulnerable phase 2nd - follow up ending vulnerable phase... This will require more precise in footwork with increasing cons from failed movement.
1) BWD sway - main defensive sway
+ the ONLY Sway that maintain evasive properties against several follow up strikes by just keep holding Sway (other sways evades only one strike or 2 fast jabs, then strikes are tracking holder sway)
+ evade all head strikes
- get increased body damage from all body strikes
- gain GDA
- has slowest sway off strike speed (no boosted strike, for Boosted name check my Boosted strike mechanics thread)
2) FWD sway - offensive defense
+ evade all head strikes except riding up like Uppercut
+ gain GA
+ has faster sway off strike speed (half boosted strike)
- get increased body and head damage from all body strikes and rising up head strikes appropriately.
3) Left/right sway - best offensive sway
+ evade all head strikes except half circular on sway side
+ has the fastest sway off strike speed (boosted strike)
- no effect on GA/GDA
- get increased body and head damage especially (even more no) from half circular strike from sway side.
4) Side steps:
+ evade all head or body strikes except half circular strikes from the sway side
+ boosted strikes after side step
- get increased received dmg bonus from side step side opponent's half circular strike or full circular spinning strike.
5) BWD dash:
+ evade ALL strikes
- gain GDA
6) FWD dash:
- no evades at all
+ boosted strikes
- getting increased head or body dmg during dash
- gain GA
Effects rom +/- for every defense element:
1. Any Sway type and side step and dashes will have their own pros and cons and their own usage strategy > more gameplay depth and Yomi to read learn anticipate and then counter opponent
2. More possibility to create YOUR OWN defense style > more gameplay diversity (1P uses Turtle style based on skill defense and counter actions; 2P uses Rush style based on Offensive side steps, Striking advantage by mix up, 3P is using both styles to break opponent’s mind stream and timing).
3. More mind game because you need to adapt to the current opponent’s defense style.
4. More roster fighter’s diversity by perks/attributes specialized for different Fighting style (1P has higher Sway attributes (faster, more evasive), faster longer dashes/side steps; 2P has more high level Offensive side steps and dashes; 3P is balanced but have some perks which allows him easily to switch between 2 styles).
III. Make every fighter more UNIQUE - Increase roster Fighter’ diversity/specialization for EVERY defense element:
1. Create NEW attributes:
Sway defense = sway speed, radius (evasive)
Sway offense = speed and/or dmg MP for sway off strikes
Dash defense = dash speed, range
Dash offense = dash and/or dmg MP for dash off strikes
Side step defense = side step speed, range
Side step offense = speed and/or dmg MP for side step off strikes
I.e. create an attribute for EVERY important Stand up parameter (walking, dashes, Parries, etc)
+
Implement modifier for them based on current conditions: Backward Near the Cage by (lower footwork attributes). Damaged legs (lower footwork), Famaged Body (lower sways)
> This will allow tom player to determine “Target zones” to crush the concrete opponent’s style (strike his body to solve swaying opponent, crush his legs to solve footwork opponent, etc).
2. Balance them between roster fighters to make very fighter more UNIQUE with more unique fighting style.
Effects:
1. Huge diversity in gameplay
2. Every fighter will have their own Pros and Cons
3. Every fighter will have their own unique fighting style.
VI. FOOTWORK:
I want to ask do we have a tool to “Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee”? No! Top fighters fight is so boring – both fighters are holding Block and walking toward/backward by straight line. This is terrible.
Why? Because we 1. Don’t have tools for diversуFootwork and 2. Different Footwork elements are not balanced between each other (pros & cons), so no need to use all of them and every of them for appropriate fight situation!
How to fix:
1) MAKE 2 VERSIONS FOR DASH and SIDE STEP: offensive and defensive/neutral:
LS click – fwd – FWD Dash (neutral)
bwd – BWD Dash (defensive)
Up/Down – Defensive Side step
L1 + LS click – fwd – FWD Offensive lunge Dash
bwd – Escape lunge Dash
Up/Down – Offensive side step.
The balance (+/-) between them is a theme for discussion in this thread guys, welcome!
2) USE STANCE (closed/open) for SUCCESS of Footwork:
This is my thread how to solve too large nerf of Side steps after 1.10 based on CM changes:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...mind-game.html
Check this for more info about foot positions (example from the deepest and most realistiv and technical 3D fighting game ver – Virtua Fighter):
In every Virtua Fighter game, the relation of each player's foot position would be collectively known as the stance. This is also known as "foot stance" or "foot position".
Stances can be one of two types:
These stances, and how the apply to the game are discussed below.
Closed Stance
Closed Stance refers to the case where each player has the same foot forward.
In the first footprint image, both 1P and 2P have their left foot forward and right foot back. This is the default starting stance that both players will have at the beginning of each round. In the second footprint image, both 1P and 2P have their right foot forward and left foot back.
The term "Closed Stance" originated from a reference to door positions. If you imagine a line connecting Player 1's feet, and another line connecting Player 2's feet, then the two lines would look like // or \\ resembling a closed door when viewed from above.
Open Stance
Open Stance refers to the case where each player has an opposing foot forward.
In the first footprint image, 1P has their left foot forward and 2P has their right foot forward. In the second footprint image, 1P has their right foot forward and 2P has their left foot forward.
The term "Open Stance" originated from a reference to door positions. If you imagine a line connecting Player 1's feet, and another line connecting Player 2's feet, then the two lines would look like /\ or \/ resembling an open door when viewed from above.
Application of Stance(top)
There are two main applications of stance within the VF system:
Understanding these concepts is one thing, but the ability to put them into practice is another. Knowing is half the battle, so let's get the knowledge down first and then move onto how to "see" the stance when you need it.
3) SIDE TURNED Situation (STS) as a anti turtle tool:
The idea is to bring Side turned situation when opponent is by his side to me after some actions.
Opponent in this state:
- requires to turn around to me which take time (for ex 8F), and ONLY AFTER this his strike will launch > his strike execution will be longer by 8F (i.e. more SA to me)
- can activate Block w/o additional penalty (based only on his strike disadvantage), but will have increased frames penalty (8F) required for turning around to become faced to me.
- opponent can turn around to me by clicking any move or strike and all of them will have +8F to their execution.
- in this state opponent’s Block is only by ONE hand > all damage from different sided strike or combo (L-R) are landed on ONE hand > more sooner Block breaking (more suitable situation for Combos) > need less trikes to break a block (shorter combo)
How Block works now in EA UFC2: it depends only on Hand health; when ONE hand accumulate max possible damage it cancels ENTIRE block. Left strikes hits right hand, right strikes hits left hand > Combo (switching L-R) will deal damage to L and R hands nearly equally > needs more strikes to break a block (longer combo).
How to go into STS:
1. By Offensive Side step
2. By some Half circular and Full circular strikes which have rotating effect on opponent (only on Major counter hit).
4) 2 types of SIDE STEPS:
EA UFC 2 has 2 types of Side steps (LS click and with L1) which are not too different in usage.
This Striking concept will bring 2 absolutely different side steps:
0. The main change – NO BLOCKING during dash or side step.
Now we can dash/side step with holded Bock, and Block continue to be active during all dash/side step animation – this is WRONG! Because no risk during footwork.
Sway has not Blocking during it.
So and Dashes /Side steps must to have not it alsow!
Block is using only to interrupt stop Dash/side step and only then Block becomes active!
This is important!!
1. DEFENSIVE SIDE STEP (DSS):
Click LS up/down
- will have a bit wider range that we have now
- has evasive properties against linear and half circular attacks if stepped in right direction away from the strike (check opponent’s foot position = skill).
- after well timed DSS opponent’s strike whiffed > I have SA for punish
- failed DSS (mistimed) has shorter range and animation , may be another sound (for checking)
- I think devs needs to remove Stamina level effect on DSS (lower stamina = slower DSS) to make it more stable (we have stamina depending strikes – this is enough)
Anti DSS:
- delayed strike to break his DSS timing (when evasive phase of DSS is gone)
- full circular and appropriate half circular strikes
- all grappling moves (Clinch, TD).
Effect from getting hit on failed DSS:
- increased dmg bonus as a Major counter = more hit stun.
Conditions: negative SA (to evade attacks).
2. OFFENSIVE SIDE STEP (OSS):
Click LS up/down + L1
- will have a bit another animation and sound (for checking), wider range
- has NOT any evasive properties at all! All strikes and Grappling moves are hitting OSS and causing Major counter
- but if the opponent is not making strikes/Grappling moves (Clinch, TD), is moving or stand still or stand Blocking – I will be on his Side after OSS (I will get Side step situation and all advantages from it), so OSS is a perfect anti Turtle tool (against players who back pedal with blocking). And bring more depth and difference into Striking stand up, also will bring truly 3D fighting.
- I think devs needs to remove Stamina level effect on OSS (lower Stamina = slower OSS) to make it more stable (we have stamina depending strikes – this is enough).
Conditions to OSS: neutral or positive SA (to increase SA and solve Turtling fighters. For ex after gaining some SA (by hit, opponent whiff naturally not by DSS, after blocking his strike) i perform OSS to increase my SA and to get opportunity to Block break go to defense opponent.
I want to add some video explanation of defensive (DSS) and offensive (OSS) side step mechanics in concept.
3. FWD DASH:
Click LS fwd.
Is a normal fwd dash with full stand animation.
+ Boost strikes speed
+ gives GA
+ can be stopped any time by Block into Blocking state
4. FWD OFFENSIVE DASH:
L1 + click LS fwd.
Is a dive (crouch, lunge animation). Myke Tyson style by lighting dive toward the opponent with follow up strike.
+ has crouch phase in mid of animation for 10-15 frames window = evade high strikes (head is going under them) = High crush.
+ has 50% longer range than standard
+ boosted strike strength (dmg MP because of omentum)
- can not be stopped at all (impossible) by Block > is very dangerous to meet upcoming Mid or low strike)
- getting increased damage MP if received hit during it because of momentum
- cost more Stamina than standard
= this is a “Run” button, it must to be used when opponent is ready for Finish the fight state (health event) or for counter against opponent’s Head strike.
5. BWD DASH:
Click LS bwd
Is a normal bwd dash with full stand animation.
+ can be stopped any time by Block into Blocking state
= no effect on GA/GDA
6. BWD DEFFENSIVE DASH:
L1 + click LS bwd
Is a run away “escape”
+ has crouch phase in its initial phase of animation for 10-15 frames window = evade high strikes (head is going under them) = High crush.
+ has 50% longer range than standard
- can not be stopped at all (impossible) by Block > is very dangerous to meet chasing Mid or low strike)
- cost more Stamina than standard
- getting hit during it causes Full body hit reaction (stagger)
- gain huge GDA (TD is a tool vs it)
ILLUSTRATION:
This video is taken from Virtua Fighter 5 final showdown tutorial, how to implement this side step system in EA UFC with realism i wrote above in 11), 12).
<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/boM7T3BWewY" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>
Legends:
OM - offensive move (OSS)
DM - defensive move (DSS)
ST - side turned
G - guard block
STG - blocking in side turned situation
Timing:
3:40 – DM
4:00 – OM
32:00 – Failed DM
33:00 – Cancel Failed DM
34:00 – Successful DM
35:40 – Anti DM: Full-circular attacks (is CH)
36:15 – Anti DM: Half-circular attacks (is CH)
38:30 – Getting hit during DM is CH.
39:00 – Anti DM: Delayed attack (is not CH)
40:00 – Anti DM: Throws
41:40 – OM
1:53:00 – Side Guard (SG) and Side-Turned Guard (STG). How to go to the opponent’s side:
1:53:15 – 1. by attack him from behind (6F for him to turning, then STG)
1:53:25 – 2. by successful DM > then immediately (by buffering) attack (even slow attack).
1:54:10 – 3. by OM > then immediately (by buffering) attack (even slow attack).
1:54:40 – I get +3F more advantage from hit to ST opponent.
1:55:25 – I get +3F more advantage from Guard my attack by ST opponent.
1:55:40 – The side frame bonus advantage is determined by the base damage of the attack! Base damage 14 or less = +2 (P and 2P has +2F (not 3F) on ST opponent); Base damage 15 - 24 = +3; Base damage 25 or more = +6.
1:56:25 – STACKING opponent IN STG: Continue striking opponent in STG – he will be stacked in STG (Opponent needs 12F to turning into face Guard): [considering-summering my frame advantage status] IF i hit him at 1-12F (my exe is 1-12F) – he will STG; IF i hit him (me exe is) at 13<sup>th</sup> or more frame – he will face Guard.
1:57:40 – STG opponent can not to switch High/Low Guard against SOME Strings (Series), but can against Normal strikes.
VI. PARRY:
With this Defense mechanics we can delete Parry from the game
BUT
I don’t think this is needed - this is the object for discussion here.
Parry mechanics:
- the same as we have now
- with the same input
- but need to add from EA UFC 1 (in EA UFC 2 it was gone strangely): Impossible to Parry right after received hit during 20 frames. So, no parries right after getting hit.
If devs are going to save Parry for UFC3 it will be awesome to bring more diversity to PARRY:
In VF5 we have a huge diversity between reversals of different characters:
- some characters gave reversal against Pucnhes, some against concrete kick types
- some characters has reversals against all level strikes (low, mid, high), some against high or low
- reversal window is different between different character: Akira has 10F window, Goh has 15F, etc
So, Reversal game is totally different between different fighters. based on their style and +/-.
There are 4 types of "Parry" in VF5:
Reversal - grab attacking hand and deal dmg
Sabaki - deflect attacking limb by performing special strike and deal dmg
Inashi - deflect attacking limb and gain Striking advantage w/o dealing dmg (attack setup)
Throw inashi - counter against clinch/throw attempt which ends in GA situation.
> So, i hope we will see the difference in reversal/parry game between different fighters in EA UFC 3.
____________________________________________
EFFECTS from this New footwork and defense mechanics:
All this moves and elements are realistic (we saw them during fights from some of the fighters). It will change the entire stand up game dramatically I promise, will bring:
1) more depth
2) more diversity
3) more skill (need more knowledge and practice)
4) more creativity (need to use fighter’s pros and cons to create his OWN UNIQUE fighting style)
5) more Yomi/mind game (need learning opponent’s styles, his pros and cons to counter his elements and then crush him).
6) This mechanics allow to implement all boxing (Tyson) elements to the game:
__________________________________________
Please, post here your thoughts about this concept, bring your ideas and adjustments, please use this thread to change +/- between different elements but with explanation of your thoughts.
1. Awesome Ground game which uses the full Grappling mechanics.
2. Good but not enough Clinch game which uses a part of Grappling mechanics. Check this for Clinch issues to easily fix/evolve it for EA UFC 3:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...-fix-them.html
But
The main EA UFC 1-2 issue – is Stand up striking game. It is a coin with 2 sides:
1. Attack = Striking, check my “NEW Stand-up STRIKING mechanics for EA UFC 3 (concept, ideas, discussions)”:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...scussions.html
2. Defense = Sway, Parries, Footwork/Footsy (Dodges, Side steps, Walking, Run).
This thread is about this 2<sup>nd</sup> side of the coin.
LEGEND:
Dash = Dodge: BWD/FWD
Side step = Lunge: L/R
Yomi = Mind game (learn your opponent to predict his next move to counter it). 3<sup>rd</sup> level Yomi – counter to opponent’s counter to your move (trap to the trap). Read Sirlin work, talent game designer (this is the Rule how to make good fighting game):
GDA - grapple DIS advantage
GA - grapple advantage
With these 2 threads (Attack and Defense) the system becomes fully complete, this a COMPLEX mechanics, where every its element take its role for the gameplay’ depth, yomi and balance.
I. SWAY mechanics:
1) EA UFC 2 Sway PROS (save it):
1. FWD add GA, BWD add GDA
2. FWD add received dmg bonus
3. BWD add received Body dmg bonus
2) EA UFC 2 Sway CONS (needs to be to fixed):
1. Bug which is breaking counter strike after Sway:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...way-click.html
2. Control input issues which restricts its fast and tight usage:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...2-how-fix.html
3. Strike tracking against Sways needs to be nerfed to buff sway.
4. Needs to buff Left/Right sway effeciency - must to become a tool for evading half circular Head strikes if away the strike.
+
must to get received dmg bonus (like 1.10 lunges) is toward the strike.
5. Needs to allow Sway strike (sway off strike) - strike from sway position, w/o (as we have now) returning to initial state and only then strike begins, which opens us for getting hit from follow up opponent's strike = difficult to counter from sway successfully).
6. Make quicker initial startup animation of Sway (more evasive on start).
7. Wrong command layout (by L2+RS)– it prevents quick Sway perform as it must to be. restricts sway usage.
3) The most important – CHANGE SWAY INPUT LAYOUT:
Now to perform sway we need to hold L2 + click/hold RS.
Cons:
- can not to move and close distance while performing/using Sway
- slower input
- not ergonomical/difficult input for Head strikes and strikes which are using LS (hooks and uppercuts) because you need to release L2 for this before strike input (more fails).
> How to change:
RS – Sway (w/o any buttons to activate it).
L1 + RS – Clinch attempts (Left – OU, Right – SC, Up – MT, Down – DU)
L2 + RS – TD/Throw attempts (Left – DL, Right – SL, Up – Power SL, Down Power DL).
Now in EA UFC 2 RS up/down are not using at all, terrible slots loosing! This will fix it.
So, now we can walk/dash/side steps by LS and perform sways FREELY by RS. BUT LS walking speed during already performing Sway must to be slowest (as we have now on tilted a bit LS)!
I though this will be difficult to implement but this is possible w/o loosing other features.
Effects from this Sway input change:
1. The main – possible to Sway + walking toward the opponent = slowly closing distance (LS) with keeping defense with offense opportunity (LS continuously Left<>Right)(because L/R sway is an offensive sway in my system which allow a huge side counter). This is a Mike Tyson “Peek-a-Bo” boxing style and a tool for Short reach fighters to become a threat.
With current sway input this is impossible, with my Sway input it becomes more realistic and balanced for short reach fighters.
Possible to Sway with keep Walking in ANY direction (toward, away, side) - more defense possibilities:
2. Quicker, more intuitively and more ergonomical Sway input. Sway must to become the main in place defense tool, not a Parry.
3. Balance and pros for Short reach fighters
4. Power TD attempts now uses only ONE button modifier instead of 2 (L2+L1) – more ergonomical.
This new SWAY INPUT as i said allows us to input ALL types of Takedowns/Clinches from ONE button modifiers (L2 for TD, L1 for Clinch).
We could use it to evolve Dynamic Grappling mechanics by creating Takedown Switch mechanics.
LEGEND:
TM - transition meter
TD - take down
DL - double leg TD
SL - single leg TD
GB - Grapple block
TAKEDOWN SWITCH (in Stand up and Clinch state):
L2 + RS (keep holding RS to filling up TM) - Takedown attempt
Input:
Takedown switch DL to SL:
[on concrete TM section, for ex from 16:00 to 20:00] attacker can swoop (circling w/o releasing RS) from bwd (DL) to fwd (SL) and continue to keep holding RS (release RS - cancel TD attempt) > will switch TD DL to SL and starts filling up TM from 0.
Just releasing TD attempt (release RS) must to give Striking advantage (check my New striking mechanics thread in mt threads list):
<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/oQlAok51tFw" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>
Defense: will need to Grapple block on new SL TD as vs standard TD, BUT (any type 1st initial TD is deniaed by R2+RS down) switched 2nd TD must to be denied by its input direction (fwd for DL, bwd for SL, and (may be! disputed) up for Power SL, down for Power DL or the same as not power versions i.e. 50/50).
Effects from TS Switch mechanics:
+ 1st DL TD - is a Fake transition which provoke opponent to Blank or Wrong GB > guarantee follow up DL TD
+ harder to deny 2nd TD because needs right input (50/50).
+ defense against pro wrestler 2nd switched TD is difficult so you will be wanting to GB his 1st TD (R2+RS down) so you will be forced even to hold R2+RS down for pre-emptive TD denial, which opens up you for strikes (no block).
- TD Switch costs more stamina
- TD Switch is available only for few fighters not all (professional wrestlers)
- successful deny of 2nd switched TD moving attacker to a more disadvantage position (not sprawl but sub back side control for ex).
control for ex).
Important! Temporary GA does not transfer from initial 1st TD to 2nd switched TD (it does not have temporary GA bonus, only permanent GA like grappling attributes), so IF you have large GA don't go to TD switch, IF you don't have GA or have GDA go to TD switch aiming for forcing opponent to Blank or Wrong GB!
Resume: Takedown switch based on new input layout will dramatically increase depth, diversity and strategy of TD grappling in stand up/clinch.
We can dispute here which versona of TD Switch are possible in the game:
1) DL to SL:
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2) SL to DL:
<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nD7NYRVdjsA" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>
3) Power TD to standard or Standard to Power TD - disputable, based on how it exist in real life mma.
4) DIFFERENT SWAY HAS ITS OWN Pros and Cons:
- Check lower section.
II. BALANCE between DIFFERENT DEFENSE elements by +/- for EVERY element:
What is the most usable Sway? Bwd
How often do you use other sway direction sways especially left right? Rare
How often do you use Dash and Side step? Mid or rare because this is high risk/low reward especially now after 1.10
I have an idea how to bring balance and depth into all Defensive elements (this + and – are discussable, so please use this thread to change +/- between different elements but with explanation of your thoughts).
DASHES (aka footwork) are one of the most important element in stand up irl and must to be in the game.
But
The current state dashes and side steps are very not reliable tool:
1. slow initial phase
2. input delay
3. not balanced in pros/cons proportions
How to fix and evolve them for EA UFC 3:
1. faster initial phase
2. w/o input delay
3. They must have 2 phases: 1st - initial startup invulnerable phase 2nd - follow up ending vulnerable phase... This will require more precise in footwork with increasing cons from failed movement.
1) BWD sway - main defensive sway
+ the ONLY Sway that maintain evasive properties against several follow up strikes by just keep holding Sway (other sways evades only one strike or 2 fast jabs, then strikes are tracking holder sway)
+ evade all head strikes
- get increased body damage from all body strikes
- gain GDA
- has slowest sway off strike speed (no boosted strike, for Boosted name check my Boosted strike mechanics thread)
2) FWD sway - offensive defense
+ evade all head strikes except riding up like Uppercut
+ gain GA
+ has faster sway off strike speed (half boosted strike)
- get increased body and head damage from all body strikes and rising up head strikes appropriately.
3) Left/right sway - best offensive sway
+ evade all head strikes except half circular on sway side
+ has the fastest sway off strike speed (boosted strike)
- no effect on GA/GDA
- get increased body and head damage especially (even more no) from half circular strike from sway side.
4) Side steps:
+ evade all head or body strikes except half circular strikes from the sway side
+ boosted strikes after side step
- get increased received dmg bonus from side step side opponent's half circular strike or full circular spinning strike.
5) BWD dash:
+ evade ALL strikes
- gain GDA
6) FWD dash:
- no evades at all
+ boosted strikes
- getting increased head or body dmg during dash
- gain GA
Effects rom +/- for every defense element:
1. Any Sway type and side step and dashes will have their own pros and cons and their own usage strategy > more gameplay depth and Yomi to read learn anticipate and then counter opponent
2. More possibility to create YOUR OWN defense style > more gameplay diversity (1P uses Turtle style based on skill defense and counter actions; 2P uses Rush style based on Offensive side steps, Striking advantage by mix up, 3P is using both styles to break opponent’s mind stream and timing).
3. More mind game because you need to adapt to the current opponent’s defense style.
4. More roster fighter’s diversity by perks/attributes specialized for different Fighting style (1P has higher Sway attributes (faster, more evasive), faster longer dashes/side steps; 2P has more high level Offensive side steps and dashes; 3P is balanced but have some perks which allows him easily to switch between 2 styles).
III. Make every fighter more UNIQUE - Increase roster Fighter’ diversity/specialization for EVERY defense element:
1. Create NEW attributes:
Sway defense = sway speed, radius (evasive)
Sway offense = speed and/or dmg MP for sway off strikes
Dash defense = dash speed, range
Dash offense = dash and/or dmg MP for dash off strikes
Side step defense = side step speed, range
Side step offense = speed and/or dmg MP for side step off strikes
I.e. create an attribute for EVERY important Stand up parameter (walking, dashes, Parries, etc)
+
Implement modifier for them based on current conditions: Backward Near the Cage by (lower footwork attributes). Damaged legs (lower footwork), Famaged Body (lower sways)
> This will allow tom player to determine “Target zones” to crush the concrete opponent’s style (strike his body to solve swaying opponent, crush his legs to solve footwork opponent, etc).
2. Balance them between roster fighters to make very fighter more UNIQUE with more unique fighting style.
Effects:
1. Huge diversity in gameplay
2. Every fighter will have their own Pros and Cons
3. Every fighter will have their own unique fighting style.
VI. FOOTWORK:
I want to ask do we have a tool to “Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee”? No! Top fighters fight is so boring – both fighters are holding Block and walking toward/backward by straight line. This is terrible.
Why? Because we 1. Don’t have tools for diversуFootwork and 2. Different Footwork elements are not balanced between each other (pros & cons), so no need to use all of them and every of them for appropriate fight situation!
How to fix:
1) MAKE 2 VERSIONS FOR DASH and SIDE STEP: offensive and defensive/neutral:
LS click – fwd – FWD Dash (neutral)
bwd – BWD Dash (defensive)
Up/Down – Defensive Side step
L1 + LS click – fwd – FWD Offensive lunge Dash
bwd – Escape lunge Dash
Up/Down – Offensive side step.
The balance (+/-) between them is a theme for discussion in this thread guys, welcome!
2) USE STANCE (closed/open) for SUCCESS of Footwork:
This is my thread how to solve too large nerf of Side steps after 1.10 based on CM changes:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...mind-game.html
Check this for more info about foot positions (example from the deepest and most realistiv and technical 3D fighting game ver – Virtua Fighter):
In every Virtua Fighter game, the relation of each player's foot position would be collectively known as the stance. This is also known as "foot stance" or "foot position".
Stances can be one of two types:
- Closed
- Open
These stances, and how the apply to the game are discussed below.
Closed Stance
Closed Stance refers to the case where each player has the same foot forward.
The term "Closed Stance" originated from a reference to door positions. If you imagine a line connecting Player 1's feet, and another line connecting Player 2's feet, then the two lines would look like // or \\ resembling a closed door when viewed from above.
Open Stance
Open Stance refers to the case where each player has an opposing foot forward.
The term "Open Stance" originated from a reference to door positions. If you imagine a line connecting Player 1's feet, and another line connecting Player 2's feet, then the two lines would look like /\ or \/ resembling an open door when viewed from above.
Application of Stance(top)
There are two main applications of stance within the VF system:
- Effect on Combos
- Evading Half Circular Attacks
Understanding these concepts is one thing, but the ability to put them into practice is another. Knowing is half the battle, so let's get the knowledge down first and then move onto how to "see" the stance when you need it.
3) SIDE TURNED Situation (STS) as a anti turtle tool:
The idea is to bring Side turned situation when opponent is by his side to me after some actions.
Opponent in this state:
- requires to turn around to me which take time (for ex 8F), and ONLY AFTER this his strike will launch > his strike execution will be longer by 8F (i.e. more SA to me)
- can activate Block w/o additional penalty (based only on his strike disadvantage), but will have increased frames penalty (8F) required for turning around to become faced to me.
- opponent can turn around to me by clicking any move or strike and all of them will have +8F to their execution.
- in this state opponent’s Block is only by ONE hand > all damage from different sided strike or combo (L-R) are landed on ONE hand > more sooner Block breaking (more suitable situation for Combos) > need less trikes to break a block (shorter combo)
How Block works now in EA UFC2: it depends only on Hand health; when ONE hand accumulate max possible damage it cancels ENTIRE block. Left strikes hits right hand, right strikes hits left hand > Combo (switching L-R) will deal damage to L and R hands nearly equally > needs more strikes to break a block (longer combo).
How to go into STS:
1. By Offensive Side step
2. By some Half circular and Full circular strikes which have rotating effect on opponent (only on Major counter hit).
4) 2 types of SIDE STEPS:
EA UFC 2 has 2 types of Side steps (LS click and with L1) which are not too different in usage.
This Striking concept will bring 2 absolutely different side steps:
0. The main change – NO BLOCKING during dash or side step.
Now we can dash/side step with holded Bock, and Block continue to be active during all dash/side step animation – this is WRONG! Because no risk during footwork.
Sway has not Blocking during it.
So and Dashes /Side steps must to have not it alsow!
Block is using only to interrupt stop Dash/side step and only then Block becomes active!
This is important!!
1. DEFENSIVE SIDE STEP (DSS):
Click LS up/down
- will have a bit wider range that we have now
- has evasive properties against linear and half circular attacks if stepped in right direction away from the strike (check opponent’s foot position = skill).
- after well timed DSS opponent’s strike whiffed > I have SA for punish
- failed DSS (mistimed) has shorter range and animation , may be another sound (for checking)
- I think devs needs to remove Stamina level effect on DSS (lower stamina = slower DSS) to make it more stable (we have stamina depending strikes – this is enough)
Anti DSS:
- delayed strike to break his DSS timing (when evasive phase of DSS is gone)
- full circular and appropriate half circular strikes
- all grappling moves (Clinch, TD).
Effect from getting hit on failed DSS:
- increased dmg bonus as a Major counter = more hit stun.
Conditions: negative SA (to evade attacks).
2. OFFENSIVE SIDE STEP (OSS):
Click LS up/down + L1
- will have a bit another animation and sound (for checking), wider range
- has NOT any evasive properties at all! All strikes and Grappling moves are hitting OSS and causing Major counter
- but if the opponent is not making strikes/Grappling moves (Clinch, TD), is moving or stand still or stand Blocking – I will be on his Side after OSS (I will get Side step situation and all advantages from it), so OSS is a perfect anti Turtle tool (against players who back pedal with blocking). And bring more depth and difference into Striking stand up, also will bring truly 3D fighting.
- I think devs needs to remove Stamina level effect on OSS (lower Stamina = slower OSS) to make it more stable (we have stamina depending strikes – this is enough).
Conditions to OSS: neutral or positive SA (to increase SA and solve Turtling fighters. For ex after gaining some SA (by hit, opponent whiff naturally not by DSS, after blocking his strike) i perform OSS to increase my SA and to get opportunity to Block break go to defense opponent.
I want to add some video explanation of defensive (DSS) and offensive (OSS) side step mechanics in concept.
3. FWD DASH:
Click LS fwd.
Is a normal fwd dash with full stand animation.
+ Boost strikes speed
+ gives GA
+ can be stopped any time by Block into Blocking state
4. FWD OFFENSIVE DASH:
L1 + click LS fwd.
Is a dive (crouch, lunge animation). Myke Tyson style by lighting dive toward the opponent with follow up strike.
+ has crouch phase in mid of animation for 10-15 frames window = evade high strikes (head is going under them) = High crush.
+ has 50% longer range than standard
+ boosted strike strength (dmg MP because of omentum)
- can not be stopped at all (impossible) by Block > is very dangerous to meet upcoming Mid or low strike)
- getting increased damage MP if received hit during it because of momentum
- cost more Stamina than standard
= this is a “Run” button, it must to be used when opponent is ready for Finish the fight state (health event) or for counter against opponent’s Head strike.
5. BWD DASH:
Click LS bwd
Is a normal bwd dash with full stand animation.
+ can be stopped any time by Block into Blocking state
= no effect on GA/GDA
6. BWD DEFFENSIVE DASH:
L1 + click LS bwd
Is a run away “escape”
+ has crouch phase in its initial phase of animation for 10-15 frames window = evade high strikes (head is going under them) = High crush.
+ has 50% longer range than standard
- can not be stopped at all (impossible) by Block > is very dangerous to meet chasing Mid or low strike)
- cost more Stamina than standard
- getting hit during it causes Full body hit reaction (stagger)
- gain huge GDA (TD is a tool vs it)
ILLUSTRATION:
This video is taken from Virtua Fighter 5 final showdown tutorial, how to implement this side step system in EA UFC with realism i wrote above in 11), 12).
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Legends:
OM - offensive move (OSS)
DM - defensive move (DSS)
ST - side turned
G - guard block
STG - blocking in side turned situation
Timing:
3:40 – DM
4:00 – OM
32:00 – Failed DM
33:00 – Cancel Failed DM
34:00 – Successful DM
35:40 – Anti DM: Full-circular attacks (is CH)
36:15 – Anti DM: Half-circular attacks (is CH)
38:30 – Getting hit during DM is CH.
39:00 – Anti DM: Delayed attack (is not CH)
40:00 – Anti DM: Throws
41:40 – OM
1:53:00 – Side Guard (SG) and Side-Turned Guard (STG). How to go to the opponent’s side:
1:53:15 – 1. by attack him from behind (6F for him to turning, then STG)
1:53:25 – 2. by successful DM > then immediately (by buffering) attack (even slow attack).
1:54:10 – 3. by OM > then immediately (by buffering) attack (even slow attack).
1:54:40 – I get +3F more advantage from hit to ST opponent.
1:55:25 – I get +3F more advantage from Guard my attack by ST opponent.
1:55:40 – The side frame bonus advantage is determined by the base damage of the attack! Base damage 14 or less = +2 (P and 2P has +2F (not 3F) on ST opponent); Base damage 15 - 24 = +3; Base damage 25 or more = +6.
1:56:25 – STACKING opponent IN STG: Continue striking opponent in STG – he will be stacked in STG (Opponent needs 12F to turning into face Guard): [considering-summering my frame advantage status] IF i hit him at 1-12F (my exe is 1-12F) – he will STG; IF i hit him (me exe is) at 13<sup>th</sup> or more frame – he will face Guard.
1:57:40 – STG opponent can not to switch High/Low Guard against SOME Strings (Series), but can against Normal strikes.
VI. PARRY:
With this Defense mechanics we can delete Parry from the game
BUT
I don’t think this is needed - this is the object for discussion here.
Parry mechanics:
- the same as we have now
- with the same input
- but need to add from EA UFC 1 (in EA UFC 2 it was gone strangely): Impossible to Parry right after received hit during 20 frames. So, no parries right after getting hit.
If devs are going to save Parry for UFC3 it will be awesome to bring more diversity to PARRY:
In VF5 we have a huge diversity between reversals of different characters:
- some characters gave reversal against Pucnhes, some against concrete kick types
- some characters has reversals against all level strikes (low, mid, high), some against high or low
- reversal window is different between different character: Akira has 10F window, Goh has 15F, etc
So, Reversal game is totally different between different fighters. based on their style and +/-.
There are 4 types of "Parry" in VF5:
Reversal - grab attacking hand and deal dmg
Sabaki - deflect attacking limb by performing special strike and deal dmg
Inashi - deflect attacking limb and gain Striking advantage w/o dealing dmg (attack setup)
Throw inashi - counter against clinch/throw attempt which ends in GA situation.
> So, i hope we will see the difference in reversal/parry game between different fighters in EA UFC 3.
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EFFECTS from this New footwork and defense mechanics:
All this moves and elements are realistic (we saw them during fights from some of the fighters). It will change the entire stand up game dramatically I promise, will bring:
1) more depth
2) more diversity
3) more skill (need more knowledge and practice)
4) more creativity (need to use fighter’s pros and cons to create his OWN UNIQUE fighting style)
5) more Yomi/mind game (need learning opponent’s styles, his pros and cons to counter his elements and then crush him).
6) This mechanics allow to implement all boxing (Tyson) elements to the game:
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Please, post here your thoughts about this concept, bring your ideas and adjustments, please use this thread to change +/- between different elements but with explanation of your thoughts.
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