Please God - NO TIERED stat system for UFC 3

[manliest_Man]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

Totally different game mechanics but I think you know that. With that said, I hope that rosters are easier to update in future versions.

I unfortunately don't know much about that. I don't know much regarding EA UFC 3 other than that they are focusing on Striking.

I'd suppose with that comes into play movement/defense/clinch, but everything i am typing regarding that, is pure speculation and based on what EA UFC 2 is.

[manliest_Man]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kasel

I agree with some of what you're saying, but you're demanding for a bit much here man. Spoiler I definitely agree that stat changes should be a regular thing, but not the way you're asking for it by bothering devs with videos asking for what you specifically want and have tedious voting systems, it's not really realistic or reasonable. (except maybe the fans voting, that could happen if the right people would be on board) I think what THQ did was absolutely perfect and that's what we should be asking for, after every 1-3 events there would be a ratings update based on recent event/s, and it made all the sense in the world, and honestly the greatest thing about this was that it made UFC events x5 times more fun and exciting to watch and analyze what they're probably gonna change next, it made you root for fighters even more knowing they're gonna be better in the game if they perform better IRL. It was so darn exciting. For this you need hardcore MMA fan devs (or just one guy that loves the sport like GPD does, if he has the time) that would want to do what THQ did, which would require passion for EA UFC 3 that wasn't there for 1 or 2. Not even close to that. Here are two examples of patch notes I found for the MMA game GOAT, UFC Undisputed 3 HW: Junior Dos Santos – Standing Strike Offense up 2 points to 88 Cain Velasquez – Standing Strike Defense down 3 points to 79 Brock Lesnar – Standing Kick Defense down 2 points to 68, Clinch Strike Defense down 3 points to 73 Frank Mir – Standing Strike Defense down 2 points to 70, Submission Offense up 2 points to 89 Antonio Rodrigo Minotauro Nogeuira – Standing Strike Offense up 3 points to 79, Submission Defense down 2 points to 88 Roy Nelson – Clinch Strike Defense down 2 points to 68 Cheick Kongo – Standing Strike Defense down 2 points to 79 LHW: Jon Jones – Standing Strike Defense down 2 points to 86 Quinton Jackson –Stregnth down 3 points to 83, Takedown Defense down 3 points to 82, Submission Defense down 2 points to 79 Tito Ortiz – Strength down 2 points to 78, Clinch Strike Defense down 2 points to 70, Ground Strike Defense down 3 points to 70 Shogun Rua – Standing Strikes Offense up 3 points to 86 Lyoto Machida – Standing Strikes Offense up 2 points to 82, Submission Defense down 3 points to 82 Rashad Evans – Strength up 2 points to 85, Takedown Defense up 2 points to 82 Ryan Bader – Strength up 2 points to 85, Takedown Offense up 2 points to 83 MW: Anderson Silva – Clinch Grapple Defense up 2 points to 84 Chael Sonnen – Standing Strike Offense up 3 points to 76, Takedown Offense down 2 points to 85 Vitor Belfort – Strength up 3 points to 77, Submission Offense up 3 points to 75 Michael Bisping – Strength up 2 points to 78, Takedown Defense up 2 points to 80 Yoshihiro Akiyama – Clinch Grapple Offense up 2 points to 81, Takedown Defense down 1 point to 70, Ground Grapple Bottom down 2 points to 71 WW: Carlos Condit – Footwork up 3 points to 83 Jon Fitch – Standing Strike Defense down 3 points to 72 LW: Benson Henderson – Standing Strike Offense up 3 points to 78, Standing Strike Defense up 2 points to 78, Standing Kick Offense up 2 points to 77 Frankie Edgar – Standing Kick Defense up 2 pounts to 87, Clinch Strike Defense down 2 points to 78 Jim Miller – Standing Strike Defense down 1 point to 76, Submission Offense up 1 point to 83 Nate Diaz – Standing Strike Offense up 2 points to 86, Submission Offense up 2 points to 84 Donald Cerrone – Standing Strike Defense down 2 points to 78, Standing Kick Offense down 1 point to 84 Anthony Pettis – Takedown Offense up 3 points to 76 Melvin Guillard – Standing Strike Offense up 1 point to 85, Submission Defense down 3 points to 68 Takanori Gomi – Standing Strike Defense down 1 point to 79, Submission Defense down 2 points to 71 FW: Jose Aldo – Speed down 2 points to 91 Chad Mendes – Speed up 1 points to 87, Takedown Offense down 2 points to 86 Kenny Florian – Standing Strike Defense down 2 points to 80, Clinch Grapple Offense down 2 points to 76 Diego Nunes – Standing Strike Offense up 1 point to 81 Cub Swanson – Footwork up 2 points to 78, Standing Strike Offense up 2 points to 82 George Roop – Standing Strike Defense down 2 points to 80 BW: Renan Barao – Footwork up 2 points to 81, Standing Strike Offense up 2 points to 83, Standing Kick Defense up 1 point to 76, Submission Offense up 1 point to 83 Scott Jorgensen – Footwork down 1 point to 83, Standing Strike Defense down 2 points to 78, Ground Strike Offense up 1 point to 79 Demetrious Johnson – Standing Strike Defense down 2 points to 85 Chris Cariaso – Ground Grapple Bottom Offense up 1 point to 75, Ground Grapple Bottom Defense down 2 points to 73 Takeya Mizugaki – Takedown Offense up 1 point to 79, Ground Grapple Top Offense up 2 points to 78 Eddie Wineland – Standing Strike Defense down 2 points to 82, Takedown Defense down 2 points to 74 Kid Yamamoto – Submission Defense down 2 points to 78 I don't remember which post event patch this one was, but the one below is post UFC 145: http://www.ufc.com/event/UFC145?id= HW: Junior Dos Santos – Strength up 2 points to 86, Standing Strike Offense up 2 points to 90 Ben Rothwell – Standing Strike Defense up 2 points to 80 Brendan Schaub – Standing Strike Defense down 3 points to 73 Travis Browne – Speed up 2 points to 75, Standing Kick Offense up 3 points to 71, Submission Offense up 4 points to 70 LHW: Dan Henderson – Strength up 1 point to 86, Standing Strike Offense up 2 points to 87, Standing Strike Defense up 3 points to 79 Rashad Evans – Standing Strike Defense down 2 points to 82 Phil Davis – Takedown Offense down 3 points to 80, Takedown Defense down 2 points to 80 “Legendary” Chuck Liddell – Speed up 2 points to 81, Standing Strike Offense up 3 points to 87, Standing Strike Defense up 2 points to 76, Ground Strike Offense up 2 points to 70 Thiago Silva – Strength down 1 point to 80, Footwork down 2 points to 71, Standing Strike Defense down 1 point to 78 MW: Brian Stann – Ground Strike Offense up 2 points to 83 Jason Miller – Cardio down 5 points to 78 Court McGee – Standing Kick Offense up 3 points to 73 WW: Nick Diaz – Cardio up 2 points to 91, Speed up 2 points to 79, Standing Strike Defense up 3 points to 78, Standing Kick Defense down 2 points to 71 Rory MacDonald – Ground Strike Offense up 4 points to 83 Martin Kampmann – Strength up 2 points to 69, Submission Offense up 2 points to 81. Thiago Alves – Submission Defense down 2 points to 76 Dong Hyun Kim – Standing Strike Offense up 2 points to 72, Standing Kick Offense up 4 points to 71 Paulo Thiago – Standing Strike Defense down 3 points to 73 LW: Dennis Siver – Speed up 1 point to 80, Footwork up 2 points to 77 Joe Lauzon – Standing Kick Defense down 3 points to 75 Evan Dunham – Standing Strike Offense up 3 points to 78 FW: Diego Nunes – Footwork down 2 points to 81, Standing Strike Defense down 3 points to 81 Chan Sung Jung – Strength up 2 points to 78, Standing Strike Offense up 3 points to 83, Submission Offense up 2 points to 78 Mark Hominick – Standing Strike Offense up 2 points to 86, Standing Strike Defense down 2 points to 85 BW: Joseph Benavidez – Standing Strike Offense up 2 points to 88 Miguel Torres – Standing Strike Defense down 3 points to 77 Notice the attention to detail. They even focus on footwork rating while watching fights! They know ALL the strengths and weaknesses of fighters, it's ****ing amazing and makes me wanna cry that THQ broke down RIGHT BEFORE the UFC exploded with Ronda Rousey and Conor McGregor.... We'd have-- what, Undisputed 7 by now? Could you ****ing imagine........ I'm losing my mind each time I think about the bad luck THQ and we had with this missed opportunity... But... It is what it is.

Yeah i kinda went off the rails with that last paragraph, it is a bit too much and mostly unnecessary so i removed it, but the core of it stands. I'd like to see stats changed as easily as Ultimate Team Packs are updated.

Perhaps only on the Online section of the game, the stats would be updated as easily and the single player stats would get updated with patches.

I had no idea that was a thing in Undisputed 3. That's dedication right there though!

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by manliest_Man

I unfortunately don't know much about that. I don't know much regarding EA UFC 3 other than that they are focusing on Striking. I'd suppose with that comes into play movement/defense/clinch, but everything i am typing regarding that, is pure speculation and based on what EA UFC 2 is.

I was talking about roster/stat updates. You equated releasing UT packs with updating stats as if it should be that easy. My point is they are completely different game mechanics/features. Just because one is easy to implement doesnt mean the other is.

[MartialMind]

EVERY champion has a weakness, EVERY champion, INCLUDING Demetrious Johnson. And as long as their weakness is identified and represented, they will be very good in the game, but also not invincible.

Let's use DJ as an example.

He has been basically flawless is most of his performances but the one thing we know for a fact is that he can be hurt if you land on him. He is not a John Lineker style fighter that can walk through bombs just to deliver his own.

Now I'm not saying he's EASY to finish.... I'm just saying when he gets hit flush, his body reacts accordingly like the human body is supposed to react to getting hit.... he gets either stunned briefly or even gets dropped completely.

He was dropped at least twice in his first fight against John Dodson and the reason why he got dropped ties directly to his approach to the fight. He lingered too long in the pocket at times and paid for it. As brilliant as he is, he cannot linger in the pocket too long. He has to get in, do work, and get out before he can be countered.

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Now granted, John Dodson has a lot of power for a small guy and one could argue that only Dodson can do that to DJ, but DJ has also been dropped by Joseph Benavidez, a little bit of research and you'll find it, and there are other very powerful flyweights in his division with the power to hurt him badly.

The ONLY reason we don't see him getting dropped left and right is because he RESPECTS the power of his opponents, he has a relatively safe style and approach to fighting. He uses a lot of footwork, very short, crisp combinations, doesn't allow himself to over-extend often, doesn't allow himself to get caught out of position and he keeps everything as tight as possible while also making sure his defense is on point.

Compare that to how players use him in EA Sports UFC 2 though and you see the problem. In EA Sports UFC 2, Demetrious Johnson is a terminator and very very very difficult to hurt, let alone finish and not because players use him in a way that makes it hard for you to hit them. Nope... they march you forward, brawling, getting tagged, walking through your shots and overwhelming you.

This is what the issue is. No one uses Demetrious Johnson like Demetrious Johnson actually fights in real life because you can use him as a brawler and still be successful. This is what needs to change.

Every champion fights a certain way, and to take advantage of all their strengths, we should HAVE to fight like they do or pay the price.

If you're looking for a weakness to exploit with DJ, lower his chin. Force players to use him very carefully. Speed can get you in serious trouble if you're reckless with it. You can't just lose your mind and go crazy just because you're fast... All it'll take some good timing on your opponent's part and your speed will get you KO'd. Like GPD mentioned earlier, DJ should be handled like a fast high-performance car. Yes he fast, but you have to be careful with that speed or you will lose control of it. Lower his chin, and when he gets hit flush, we should immediately be reminded that this is not a guy that should be brawled.

This way, not JUST anyone would be able to pick up DJ and use him well, even with his high stats, if he is not sooooo difficult to hurt, it'll still require skill to use him properly.

[Dave_S]

DJ's biggest weakness is his size. He's like a natural 115er.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by MartialMind

Now granted, John Dodson has a lot of power for a small guy and one could argue that only Dodson can do that to DJ, but DJ has also been dropped by Joseph Benavidez, a little bit of research and you'll find it, and there are other very powerful flyweights in his division with the power to hurt him badly.

I dont know about that. The Benavidez drop was half Joe's power and half because DJ was in the middle of throwing a kick and was off balance.

Cejudo, Reis, Elliott, Moraga and McCall all had shots to drop him but didnt and the last 3 had 3 rounds plus to do it. Borg, Formiga, Pettis and Moreno have never shown the power to KO anyone much less DJ. The guys that could do it (Dodson, Lineker and Horiguchi) are no longer in the division or the UFC.

As I said earlier, DJ may not have the toughest chin in the division but its at least top 3 and thats not much of a weakness at all.

I agree with everything else you wrote. You know that we are both in favor of a game that forces you to fight to the strengths of your fighter to win.

[godway]

Quote: Originally Posted by MartialMind

EVERY champion has a weakness, EVERY champion, INCLUDING Demetrious Johnson. And as long as their weakness is identified and represented, they will be very good in the game, but also not invincible. Let's use DJ as an example. He has been basically flawless is most of his performances but the one thing we know for a fact is that he can be hurt if you land on him. He is not a John Lineker style fighter that can walk through bombs just to deliver his own. Now I'm not saying he's EASY to finish.... I'm just saying when he gets hit flush, his body reacts accordingly like the human body is supposed to react to getting hit.... he gets either stunned briefly or even gets dropped completely. He was dropped at least twice in his first fight against John Dodson and the reason why he got dropped ties directly to his approach to the fight. He lingered too long in the pocket at times and paid for it. As brilliant as he is, he cannot linger in the pocket too long. He has to get in, do work, and get out before he can be countered. Attachment 136774 Attachment 136775 Attachment 136776 Now granted, John Dodson has a lot of power for a small guy and one could argue that only Dodson can do that to DJ, but DJ has also been dropped by Joseph Benavidez, a little bit of research and you'll find it, and there are other very powerful flyweights in his division with the power to hurt him badly. The ONLY reason we don't see him getting dropped left and right is because he RESPECTS the power of his opponents, he has a relatively safe style and approach to fighting. He uses a lot of footwork, very short, crisp combinations, doesn't allow himself to over-extend often, doesn't allow himself to get caught out of position and he keeps everything as tight as possible while also making sure his defense is on point. Compare that to how players use him in EA Sports UFC 2 though and you see the problem. In EA Sports UFC 2, Demetrious Johnson is a terminator and very very very difficult to hurt, let alone finish and not because players use him in a way that makes it hard for you to hit them. Nope... they march you forward, brawling, getting tagged, walking through your shots and overwhelming you. This is what the issue is. No one uses Demetrious Johnson like Demetrious Johnson actually fights in real life because you can use him as a brawler and still be successful. This is what needs to change. Every champion fights a certain way, and to take advantage of all their strengths, we should HAVE to fight like they do or pay the price. If you're looking for a weakness to exploit with DJ, lower his chin. Force players to use him very carefully. Speed can get you in serious trouble if you're reckless with it. You can't just lose your mind and go crazy just because you're fast... All it'll take some good timing on your opponent's part and your speed will get you KO'd. Like GPD mentioned earlier, DJ should be handled like a fast high-performance car. Yes he fast, but you have to be careful with that speed or you will lose control of it. Lower his chin, and when he gets hit flush, we should immediately be reminded that this is not a guy that should be brawled. This way, not JUST anyone would be able to pick up DJ and use him well, even with his high stats, if he is not sooooo difficult to hurt, it'll still require skill to use him properly.

This is how you have to fight with everyone though. There is no science whatsoever to the standup game. It's just walk forward and punch/kick. Stay back and punch/kick.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by godway

This is how you have to fight with everyone though. There is no science whatsoever to the standup game. It's just walk forward and punch/kick. Stay back and punch/kick.

That will likely change with UFC 3.