Is it unrelistic to expect a future UFC Game to have such high level Grappling?

[fishingtime]

Quote: Originally Posted by manliest_Man

I never asked for an overhaul. Just having a discussion on wether it's realistic to ever expect such high level grappling in the future UFC games & wether the current system can evolve to look and feel like that while maintaining the classic controller scheme. Wether they could fit such advanced things in the game and still make it viable for an average player to get an idea of what's going on and be able to recreate them and if they cannot, perhaps it could be something that's there for the high level players to take advantage of. Most of the things, seen in the video, are already kind of part of the current system, but instead of being visually there, they are instead balanced out by artificial delays, artificial stamina tiredness that slows down animations and artificially waiting for a yellow circle to fulfill it'self for a transition to occur etc. I am saying instead of having the approach of artificial looking momentum and grappling advantage and all of that, what if we got them visually in the game in the form of that video i shared, even if they had to be automated as the average player couldn't recreate them or understand them, could they possibly ever make it in the game if the current system evolved and look such high level?

I get you, but I feel it's an insult. Compared to previous games, it's a masterpiece. GPD is the man. It needs tweaking, and that's it. What you are describing is basically a whole game they would have to build. There's just too much to it. We are on the right path.

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[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by manliest_Man

I never asked for an overhaul. Just having a discussion on wether it's realistic to ever expect such high level grappling in the future UFC games & wether the current system can evolve to look and feel like that while maintaining the classic controller scheme. Wether they could fit such advanced things in the game and still make it viable for an average player to get an idea of what's going on and be able to recreate them and if they cannot, perhaps it could be something that's there for the high level players to take advantage of. Most of the things, seen in the video, are already kind of part of the current system, but instead of being visually there, they are instead balanced out by artificial delays, artificial stamina tiredness that slows down animations and artificially waiting for a yellow circle to fulfill it'self for a transition to occur etc. I am saying instead of having the approach of artificial looking momentum and grappling advantage and all of that, what if we got them visually in the game in the form of that video i shared, even if they had to be automated as the average player couldn't recreate them or understand them, could they possibly ever make it in the game if the current system evolved and look such high level?

Ever? Sure but it would take tons of mo cap, probably a new animation system, more employees and a ****load of manhours. All for a system that as Haz_ said is already pretty complicated for the majority of people that play the game already.

You dont put in all this work for a system that only "high level players" (less than 10% of the community) can only take advantage of.

[jcas007]

I just hope that they fix the fact that in so many fights I would win every stat every rd and lose decision

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[Kyle1998]

I don't understand how any game could do this period. In a game you have limited buttons you can press, they use most a lot of the buttons already for grappling. In real life you're not restricted by how many buttons are on a controller, so even if they wanted to I just don't see how they possibly could.

[Dave_S]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kyle1998

I don't understand how any game could do this period. In a game you have limited buttons you can press, they use most a lot of the buttons already for grappling. In real life you're not restricted by how many buttons are on a controller, so even if they wanted to I just don't see how they possibly could.

Marionette plugin for controllers, easy peasy.

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kyle1998

I don't understand how any game could do this period. In a game you have limited buttons you can press, they use most a lot of the buttons already for grappling. In real life you're not restricted by how many buttons are on a controller, so even if they wanted to I just don't see how they possibly could.

It's really not that unbelievable. Have controls in grappling like there are on the ground (or better imo) with various animations. They can make grappling battles just as intriguing as a ground battles in this game. There aren't even cage transition or defense like there were in THQ Undisputed, and I'm not a huge Undisputed guy. I was pretty surprised with the lack of defensive or TD tussles in this last game compared to others or simply what I expected as an enhancement.

[ZHunter1990]

Yves and Aholbert are on the money but here's my take anyways

Grappling is something you can feel, first you have to translate what you can feel into something you can only see. This alone is a huge task. Everything in Jiu Jitsu is conceptual, even more so when you have to translate it into something visual.

Mo capping isn't cheap, the man hours put into each individual nuance within the grappling system isn't cheap.

Now lets consider a black belt in BJJ, mastery of the art.(Although I dont think this is true) It takes on average, 8-15 years to earn a black belt in BJJ. These micro movements, hand fighting, ability to control pressure and balance, foot placement, baiting and muscle memory of movements..etc take time to learn because the possibilities are nearly endless in every scenario.

So lets say hypothetically we have adequate resources to create a grappling system with a very high skill ceilling that represents elite level grappling rather well. At the cost of this being the only
large improvement between each game. Less than 1% of people would take the time and put in the effort to become "elite".

Are those resources well spent? Not at all in my opinion. Sure, you satisfy the hardcore fanbase, but the casuals dont care too much. If the only large difference between UFC5 and UFC6 is a more in depth grappling system with details that dont even effect them, why would casuals buy UFC6? If sales are lower, its only logical that less resources would be spent on making the next game.

Imo the trick is finding ways to improve and create depth at higher levels that dont eat up a bunch of resources. GPD is an absolute mastermind at this.

I think its absolutely possible to have high level grappling represented in the game conceptually but it would probably take a long while.

Again, this is all hypothetical and only represents my opinion on the matter.

[Ksearyback]

Quote: Originally Posted by ZHunter1990

Yves and Aholbert are on the money but here's my take anyways Grappling is something you can feel, first you have to translate what you can feel into something you can only see. This alone is a huge task. Everything in Jiu Jitsu is conceptual, even more so when you have to translate it into something visual. Mo capping isn't cheap, the man hours put into each individual nuance within the grappling system isn't cheap. Now lets consider a black belt in BJJ, mastery of the art.(Although I dont think this is true) It takes on average, 8-15 years to earn a black belt in BJJ. These micro movements, hand fighting, ability to control pressure and balance, foot placement, baiting and muscle memory of movements..etc take time to learn because the possibilities are nearly endless in every scenario. So lets say hypothetically we have adequate resources to create a grappling system with a very high skill ceilling that represents elite level grappling rather well. At the cost of this being the only large improvement between each game. Less than 1% of people would take the time and put in the effort to become "elite". Are those resources well spent? Not at all in my opinion. Sure, you satisfy the hardcore fanbase, but the casuals dont care too much. If the only large difference between UFC5 and UFC6 is a more in depth grappling system with details that dont even effect them, why would casuals buy UFC6? If sales are lower, its only logical that less resources would be spent on making the next game. Imo the trick is finding ways to improve and create depth at higher levels that dont eat up a bunch of resources. GPD is an absolute mastermind at this. I think its absolutely possible to have high level grappling represented in the game conceptually but it would probably take a long while. Again, this is all hypothetical and only represents my opinion on the matter.

I like this. Logical and well thought out.

I also agree with others who called for tweaks rather than overhaul. A few position adds, a couple more variations from positions that incorporate timing and/or what your opponent is doing would be great. Doesn't have to be much, just enough to layer in something that might be a counterweight to some current transitions (including tweaks on the ease/difficulty of various moves).

Move-sets more unique to the character don't take any additional work.

Aside from adding positions (butterfly and half butterfly probably the most glaring from modern MMA) and maybe a handful of new transitions, the biggest change I'd like to see are some upgrades to the logic backing grapple advantage. There are too many aspects to GA that don't tie in with real life. Let's fix that first. Example: why does sitting in turtle increase GA? Makes no sense. Those little changes would be great and more intuitive to the sport.

So yeah, tweak what we currently have, so it is more realistic first. Then if their is bandwidth on the team and available resources, layer in some additions. Tweak what is a pretty damn fun system before you go adding things.