If I can do a Kimura from full guard....

[Dave_S]

Shouldn't I also always be able to do one from dominant side control, and possibly on takedown attempt?

If I can do sprawl to standing guillotine reversal shouldn't I always be able to do guillotine from dominant sprawl?

[Nugget7211]

Yeah, what submissions you do and don't have is weird as hell.

[Find_the_Door]

Yes - you should be able to. Kimura from guard should mean you have one from half guard, side control etc.

[AeroZeppelin27]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dave_S

Shouldn't I also always be able to do one from dominant side control, and possibly on takedown attempt? If I can do sprawl to standing guillotine reversal shouldn't I always be able to do guillotine from dominant sprawl?

That would make sense, yep. And I totally thought that's what we were getting when I saw subs were now catagorized by levels in the move list, ie, basic, advanced guillotines, ect.

Then I was rolling around as Dariush, and noticed he has the Kimura, Guillotine, Triangle, Omoplata and armbar from guard.. but no Kimura from side control (infact he had barely any top game subs oddly, RNC and Armbar from mount from memory)

[Solid_Altair]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dave_S

Shouldn't I also always be able to do one from dominant side control, and possibly on takedown attempt? If I can do sprawl to standing guillotine reversal shouldn't I always be able to do guillotine from dominant sprawl?

IMO, yes to the first question; not necessarily to the second.

[RetractedMonkey]

Quote: Originally Posted by Solid_Altair

IMO, yes to the first question; not necessarily to the second.

lolwut

Having a good kimura from side control does not mean you're going to have a good one from guard. And a half guard kimura is one of the lowest percentage submissions there is.

But, having a good reversal guillotine ABSOLUTELY means you have a good sprawl guillotine.

[Dave_S]

Quote: Originally Posted by RetractedMonkey

lolwut Having a good kimura from side control does not mean you're going to have a good one from guard. And a half guard kimura is one of the lowest percentage submissions there is. But, having a good reversal guillotine ABSOLUTELY means you have a good sprawl guillotine.

Yeah, so make sub half guard hard to pull off. Use it to advance position. Make it so if you end up a few stages in you can sweep opponent and end up in top side control or something.

In the older games letting your opponent escape a certain gate or you picking the specific gate you wanted to escape was an effective strategy.

[RetractedMonkey]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dave_S

Yeah, so make sub half guard hard to pull off. Use it to advance position. Make it so if you end up a few stages in you can sweep opponent and end up in top side control or something. In the older games letting your opponent escape a certain gate or you picking the specific gate you wanted to escape was an effective strategy.

That's really another discussion entirely.

I'm not in favor of having one kimura equal all kimuras in every area. I am in favor of a set of submissions from every position though. Everyone knows how to attempt a guard/sprawl guillotine, a mount armbar, a half guard sub kimura/dom arm triangle, a side control americana, and a rear naked choke. Everyone should have these but proficiency is another story.