Martial Mind's Issue With EA UFC 3 Stamina

[Serengeti1]

Quote: Originally Posted by LittleEvil

even for realism sake its not impossible to be gassed but have enough energy for full speed strikes. Much like the game, you just see them come much more infrequently

Much more infrequently? They come all the time. What are you talking about?

And no, if you're gassed... your strikes will be slower...........

Inches matter here. Inches in a fight matters. No fighter is throwing any strikes while gassed like they can while they're fresh. Maybe one at 70-80% or whatever.... but that distinction should matter in game. That's the whole point.

[LittleEvil]

Quote: Originally Posted by Serengeti95

Much more infrequently? They come all the time. What are you talking about? And no, if you're gassed... your strikes will be slower...........

No. If you are half stamina and whiff on two piece combo other than 1-2, you get depleted enough you will pay for it and thus by paying for it you are forced to choose your shots much more wisely. Shots which you can no longer string together so frequently without getting depleted AND further hurting your overall stamina. Instead of focusing on how bad you want this change cause realism (even though somehow you argue against body kick effects), why is there no discussion about the reprecussions? I haven't seen you disagree that its STILL easy to take advantage of spammers/people who dont manage stamina well. So if youre not disagreeing about that, what exactly do you think happens if you penalize that player even more?

You see a solution to something you don't like but put nothing else into context regarding the change. Its not so simple unless you want a **** ton of quits after round 1 for those who see themselves at too much of a stamina differential to overcome cause of the additional punishments you ask for

[Serengeti1]

Quote: Originally Posted by LittleEvil

No. If you are half stamina and whiff on two piece combo other than 1-2, you get depleted enough you will pay for it and thus by paying for it you are forced to choose your shots much more wisely. Shots which you can no longer string together so frequently without getting depleted AND further hurting your overall stamina. Instead of focusing on how bad you want this change cause realism (even though somehow you argue against body kick effects), why is there no discussion about the reprecussions? I haven't seen you disagree that its STILL easy to take advantage of spammers/people who dont manage stamina well. So if youre not disagreeing about that, what exactly do you think happens if you penalize that player even more? You see a solution to something you don't like but put nothing else into context regarding the change. Its not so simple unless you want a **** ton of quits after round 1 for those who see themselves at too much of a stamina differential to overcome cause of the additional punishments you ask for

I haven't argued against body work draining stamina. I'm saying that it should be toned down slightly. And that the amount of strikes you throw should make you lose more stamina than it currently does. Then add in fighters strikes/movement slowing down as the fight goes on.

You could argue that the amount of stamina you currently lose due to body work is the right amount. However, toning it down slightly for the other changes due to balancing reasons is easily the lesser evil here.

I think spammers have it easier than they should in the game. The reason you probably think the spammers don't is because you're going to the body. Next time you find a 1-2 spammer... Don't go to the body. Look at the amount of strikes they're throwing a round.... Then come back and tell me that they're being penalised too much.

I've given my idea for the solution about 3 times already. Here it is again.

[Malaach]

From UFC Undisputed 3's Practice Mode which has settings to turn health and stamina on or off, make one corner or both corners stay rocked or gassed, one corner or both corners take no damage, every strike thrown for one or both corners is automatically adjusted as counter damage.

UFC Undisputed 3 Stance When Fresh

UFC Undisputed 3 Stance When Gassed

UFC UD 3 Fresh Movement

UFC UD Gassed Movement

UFC UD 3 Fresh Striking

UFC UD 3 Gassed Striking

[LittleEvil]

Quote: Originally Posted by Serengeti95

I haven't argued against body work draining stamina. I'm saying that it should be toned down slightly. And that the amount of strikes you throw should make you lose more stamina than it currently does. Then add in fighters strikes/movement slowing down as the fight goes on. You could argue that the amount of stamina you currently lose due to body work is the right amount. However, toning it down slightly for the other changes due to balancing reasons is easily the lesser evil here. I think spammers have it easier than they should in the game. The reason you probably think the spammers don't is because you're going to the body. Next time you find a 1-2 spammer... Don't go to the body. Look at the amount of strikes they're throwing a round.... Then come back and tell me that they're being penalised too much. I've given my idea for the solution about 3 times already. Here it is again.

It shouldn't be toned down at all. Body work is the most efficient way to sap your opponents stamina and the game reflects that. And we are playing with lightweights. Unless they are using modifiers, lightweights (especially basically all of them in the beta) aren't going to get gassed throwing 100 strikes a round 80% of which are 1-2s.

So you basically just quoted the games solution to 1-2 spam as if its a problem? Why wouldn't you go to the body? Yeah, if youre a moron and let a 1-2 spammer tee off on you they don't lose stamina. Thats like real life. No one at LW is gassing doing that. We just saw Alvarez in a nonstop war where his leg was in critical, yet he still was throwing crazy volume. We've seen Nate Diaz relentlessly 1-2 Cerrone's face off. If someone wants to 1-2 spam or be overly aggressive you are supposed to go to the body as a means of making them pay for it, both in damage and stamina. The only issue with stamina is snapping off the 1-2 when stamina is completely gone.

[Serengeti1]

Quote: Originally Posted by LittleEvil

It shouldn't be toned down at all. Body work is the most efficient way to sap your opponents stamina and the game reflects that. And we are playing with lightweights. Unless they are using modifiers, lightweights (especially basically all of them in the beta) aren't going to get gassed throwing 100 strikes a round 80% of which are 1-2s. So you basically just quoted the games solution to 1-2 spam as if its a problem? Why wouldn't you go to the body? Yeah, if youre a moron and let a 1-2 spammer tee off on you they don't lose stamina. Thats like real life. No one at LW is gassing doing that. We just saw Alvarez in a nonstop war where his leg was in critical, yet he still was throwing crazy volume. We've seen Nate Diaz relentlessly 1-2 Cerrone's face off. If someone wants to 1-2 spam or be overly aggressive you are supposed to go to the body as a means of making them pay for it, both in damage and stamina. The only issue with stamina is snapping off the 1-2 when stamina is completely gone.

I said 200 strikes a round. The average striking output in the UFC is 45 a round. That's including ground strikes. Khabib throwing 200 STANDING strikes in a round and coming out in the second with barely any stamina missing isn't defensible. It's not about "why wouldn't you go to the body"... It's about it being unrealistic. It's a balancing issue too but more so a realism issue. It's not "like real life" at all.

Here's the fight metric statistics for Gaethje and Alvarez.... Guys who are no slouches. Alvarez has gone five rounds a couple of times.

Eddie threw a ton of strikes (still not 200 a round).... http://www.fightmetric.com/fight-det...e5acd1549b538a

By the third round they were both visibly tired and more laboured. Gaethje was more tired because of the body shots but Eddie was still noticeably slower too because he had a relatively higher output.

Body shots should definitely matter but output should matter more than it does now too.

Once you bring movement and strikes being visibly slowed down into the equation... It changes the balancing completely.... But if you tune all of these three things correctly.... You can achieve a much more realistic game while achieving better balance at the same time.

[Nugget7211]

I have one worry with stamina affecting movement speed, but it's something they could (I assume) easily change. When you get rocked, you move slower and your stamina is severely depleted. I'd be worried about them not accounting for this and basically rendering you immobile if you got rocked. If they did something about this, then I'm fine with this change (although I don't think it's necessary from a balance perspective, it'd be cool for realism)

[WarMMA]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nugget7211

I have one worry with stamina affecting movement speed, but it's something they could (I assume) easily change. When you get rocked, you move slower and your stamina is severely depleted. I'd be worried about them not accounting for this and basically rendering you immobile if you got rocked. If they did something about this, then I'm fine with this change (although I don't think it's necessary from a balance perspective, it'd be cool for realism)

Rocked state animations don't have to change. Just keep rocked the same that's all.