Dariush, Diakese, Felder, etc...

[YourFatZebra]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

Now Diakese, Felder, Pettis, Barboza and Dariush all have similar templates (Barboza and Pettis are more true to life though and have very specific tendencies based on fight stats). So you are seeing them behave in similar ways. This is what I like to see. I dont want everyone moving forward and just throwing combos and bombs. When you face Pettis or Felder, you should have to cut off the cage and use distance strikes to beat them. Or try to get inside. Or grapple with them to beat them. I want the final AI to be that if you fight a Machida or a Wonderboy, you have to work to land strikes just like you would in real life. It should be difficult because it is difficult in real life.

No, you're right that's what I want too. Woodley is one of my favorite fighters, and I'd hate to fight against him and see him just barreling at me like he's Rampage or something. I'm not really complaining about how hard it is for me to land on them, I'm more or less annoyed with the way it feels to actually fight them. I'm working my *** off to land, but seemingly doing no damage. Yet one punch kills me. I know "well timed counter and blah blah" yeah I know. It's just a little disheartening to lose fights where you landed 50+ more strikes than the other guy even threw, because the head kicks and elbows you landed didn't amount to the same power as that one jab. I had posted about the AI V. Player power dynamic before, and it does feel better the more I play. But I can't help but feel handicapped in comparison to them alot of the time still.

This is not me bashing the game at all. I'm just critical by nature.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by YourFatZebra

No, you're right that's what I want too. Woodley is one of my favorite fighters, and I'd hate to fight against him and see him just barreling at me like he's Rampage or something. I'm not really complaining about how hard it is for me to land on them, I'm more or less annoyed with the way it feels to actually fight them. I'm working my *** off to land, but seemingly doing no damage. Yet one punch kills me. I know "well timed counter and blah blah" yeah I know. It's just a little disheartening to lose fights where you landed 50+ more strikes than the other guy even threw, because the head kicks and elbows you landed didn't amount to the same power as that one jab. I had posted about the AI V. Player power dynamic before, and it does feel better the more I play. But I can't help but feel handicapped in comparison to them alot of the time still. This is not me bashing the game at all. I'm just critical by nature.

Now this is not a AI customization issue. The good thing is I think sliders will help lessen the power dynamic issue.

[YourFatZebra]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

Now this is not a AI customization issue. The good thing is I think sliders will help lessen the power dynamic issue.

In my opinion, I shouldn't have to go adjust the settings to get it to feel right. That's like how the WWE games have always had the finishers damage all jacked up and we have to adjust that every year.

It only bothers me because I have so many fights that feel so good, and yet a fair amount of others where I feel inherently weaker than the AI. Landing hooks that have no stopping power, throwing head kicks that seem to not collide. The two hardest AI in the beta to me have been Nate and Dariush, as odd as that sounds. I've only beaten each of them once and in almost all of my fights with them I'm landing barrages of strikes, but failing to stop them from doing anything.

That's what makes the backpeddling AI feel annoying. Knowing that it'll take 7 of my strikes to equal one of theirs. I have to grind to land those 7, he just has to land one. When he's spending 30 full seconds circling doing nothing that gets so frustrating. This doesn't happen to me online at all, even with technical opponents. The damage feels equal on both sides until one of us is an AI. I would like to hear what others think on this topic because I've heard opinions from both sides. Some who feel that the dynamic is fine and there is no difference, and others who agree that the AI feels beefed up compared to the player.

Also I am in no way trying to say that there is a right and wrong to this. This is a weirdly subjective issue to discuss in the first place.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by YourFatZebra

In my opinion, I shouldn't have to go adjust the settings to get it to feel right. That's like how the WWE games have always had the finishers damage all jacked up and we have to adjust that every year. It only bothers me because I have so many fights that feel so good, and yet a fair amount of others where I feel inherently weaker than the AI. Landing hooks that have no stopping power, throwing head kicks that seem to not collide. The two hardest AI in the beta to me have been Nate and Dariush, as odd as that sounds. I've only beaten each of them once and in almost all of my fights with them I'm landing barrages of strikes, but failing to stop them from doing anything. That's what makes the backpeddling AI feel annoying. Knowing that it'll take 7 of my strikes to equal one of theirs. I have to grind to land those 7, he just has to land one. When he's spending 30 full seconds circling doing nothing that gets so frustrating. This doesn't happen to me online at all, even with technical opponents. The damage feels equal on both sides until one of us is an AI. I would like to hear what others think on this topic because I've heard opinions from both sides. Some who feel that the dynamic is fine and there is no difference, and others who agree that the AI feels beefed up compared to the player. Also I am in no way trying to say that there is a right and wrong to this. This is a weirdly subjective issue to discuss in the first place.

Thats the reason why sliders are necessary. I've probably played over 200 fights against the AI in this beta and I dont feel a power discrepancy at all. So if there were no sliders and Skynet sees your post and says "I'm going to up the player's power against the AI".....I would be pissed.

Its impossible to make an offline game that works for every gamer without sliders. I've read a ton of AI posts here over the week. Some say its too hard on Pro. Some say its too easy on Legendary. Some say the AI runs too much. Some say its perfect.

The only way to get most of those people to a satisfactory place is to give them the control to make changes.

[AeroZeppelin27]

Please no. I know the UT AI does need work.
But I play on Pro and Legendary and I can tell you right now the AI is too aggressive if anything, it comes at you like a bullet, rarely backing off when gassed, hurt or stunned.

I would like to see the AI a little more passive if anything, or atleast, see it get defensive for a longer period after being hurt, as it stands, the stun will end and the AI will go back on the offense, usually getting dropped again on immediately.

Initially I was insanely impressed with the AI, but once I learnt the controls (I'm not trying to say you don't know the controls or anything) I actually find it a little easy again.
Sure, it'll catch you if your overly aggressive, but it falls apart if you counterstrike it.
It's still a massive improvement from 2 though.

I'd kinda like to see Pro as the kinda realistic difficulty, the legendary as one where the CPU almost has an unfair advantage, and is just insanely hard to beat.

But I'm probably crazy as hell haha.

[Skynet]

Quote: Originally Posted by YourFatZebra

In my opinion, I shouldn't have to go adjust the settings to get it to feel right. That's like how the WWE games have always had the finishers damage all jacked up and we have to adjust that every year. It only bothers me because I have so many fights that feel so good, and yet a fair amount of others where I feel inherently weaker than the AI. Landing hooks that have no stopping power, throwing head kicks that seem to not collide. The two hardest AI in the beta to me have been Nate and Dariush, as odd as that sounds. I've only beaten each of them once and in almost all of my fights with them I'm landing barrages of strikes, but failing to stop them from doing anything. That's what makes the backpeddling AI feel annoying. Knowing that it'll take 7 of my strikes to equal one of theirs. I have to grind to land those 7, he just has to land one. When he's spending 30 full seconds circling doing nothing that gets so frustrating. This doesn't happen to me online at all, even with technical opponents. The damage feels equal on both sides until one of us is an AI. I would like to hear what others think on this topic because I've heard opinions from both sides. Some who feel that the dynamic is fine and there is no difference, and others who agree that the AI feels beefed up compared to the player. Also I am in no way trying to say that there is a right and wrong to this. This is a weirdly subjective issue to discuss in the first place.

This is a very concerning view for me, and one that I really don't like seeing in these forums, because we're really trying to not have this. The real truth of the matter is that outside of the sliders that you'll have access to, the AI never has any advantage over the user in gameplay. There is no such thing as a power dynamic between the player and AI.

What this usually boils down to is simply a lack of understanding of the intricate details of the game, which is in not the users' fault at all. GPD and myself wish very much that we had better and more in-depth on boarding and practice modes available for user to really learn our game, but they don't exist. The real cause of this is likely just that you're hitting an AI that is being very passive and retreats, vs the AI hitting an opponent that's recently gassed them selves and is pressing forward.

This like means you're hitting a high stamina opponent with an ever-dropping amount of stamina, and he is then throwing with high stamina against a low stamina opponent. He's likely moving backwards and slightly reducing some of the damage you're doing, while you're moving into their strikes. Like as not the AI is blocking or defending some strikes as well, so all in all you're not really racking up a huge amount of damage.

I can honestly see how this is frustrating, and in fact I quite agree with this, as I personally tend to be more of a brawler in these games myself. However, the sport itself has these kinds of fighters, and if not for people like aholbert and some of the others on these forums (and Bassi), those fighters would likely be underrepresented in video games.

My best hope is that users either learn how to effectively fight against and enjoy the challenge these fighters pose, or at least learn how to avoid them in the game as they are indeed quite optional.

[AeroZeppelin27]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

Thats the reason why sliders are necessary. I've probably played over 200 fights against the AI in this beta and I dont feel a power discrepancy at all. So if there were no sliders and Skynet sees your post and says "I'm going to up the player's power against the AI".....I would be pissed. Its impossible to make an offline game that works for every gamer without sliders. I've read a ton of AI posts here over the week. Some say its too hard on Pro. Some say its too easy on Legendary. Some say the AI runs too much. Some say its perfect. The only way to get most of those people to a satisfactory place is to give them the control to make changes.

The like button will not work for me.
So I'm just sayin' I love this comment and totally agree.
I do think the AI needs a little work across the board (mostly just how it handles its stamina and health after being hurt) but for the most part, sliders sound like a good fix to our individual preferences.

[Skynet]

Quote: Originally Posted by AeroZeppelin27

Sure, it'll catch you if your overly aggressive, but it falls apart if you counterstrike it. It's still a massive improvement from 2 though.

I actually very much agree with you on this and hopefully this has been improved for you post-beta and will continue to do so via patches.

Quote: Originally Posted by AeroZeppelin27

I'd kinda like to see Pro as the kinda realistic difficulty, the legendary as one where the CPU almost has an unfair advantage, and is just insanely hard to beat. But I'm probably crazy as hell haha.

This is actually my hope as well. Pro has most of the Fight IQ-like features while not having the more robotic reaction times and combo lengths. I would like to see pro be the go-to difficulty for offline realism matches.

Likewise, I want Legendary to be as complex and difficult as it can be without cheating, and while still being as true to the fighter likeness as possible, though now swaying slightly more towards difficulty than realism.

Ideally.