Stamina question for a developer or GC

[Phillyboi207]

While i agree blank complaints are useless I havent been doing that. If you look at my other posts I offer alternatives.

It’s very true that we dont know the behind the scene stuff and I definitely think most of y’all Gcs and developers are doing a good job. You’re awesome. zombie dude is perfect, martial mind’s influence is great.

But others have been consistent from the start about being a fighting game enthuist not a MMA fan.

I think this idea that catering to MMA fans would ruin sales is misguided. It’s a growing sport and will always attract casuals due to the violence alone. If the game is realistic it would be dynamic enough to replicate Diego Sanchez style fights but also give us Cruz vs TJ chess matches.

I’m not saying the game has to even be 100% realistic. Just give me sliders and the ability to edit fighters and i’d shut up. But i know it isnt that easy.

Honestly if GPD said they’re going to cater to fighting game casuals I’d shut up because it what it is at that point. i speak out because this is one of the best dev teams i’ve ever seen and i have faith they wont completely ignore MMA fans as long as we keep talking.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phillyboi207

While i agree blank complaints are useless I havent been doing that. If you look at my other posts I offer alternatives. It’s very true that we dont know the behind the scene stuff and I definitely think most of y’all Gcs and developers are doing a good job. You’re awesome. zombie dude is perfect, martial mind’s influence is great. But others have been consistent from the start about being a fighting game enthuist not a MMA fan. I think this idea that catering to MMA fans would ruin sales is misguided. It’s a growing sport and will always attract casuals due to the violence alone. If the game is realistic it would be dynamic enough to replicate Diego Sanchez style fights but also give us Cruz vs TJ chess matches. I’m not saying the game has to even be 100% realistic. Just give me sliders and the ability to edit fighters and i’d shut up. But i know it isnt that easy. Honestly if GPD said they’re going to cater to fighting game casuals I’d shut up because it what it is at that point. i speak out because this is one of the best dev teams i’ve ever seen and i have faith they wont completely ignore MMA fans as long as we keep talking.

Dont take my posts as a comment on you. You and many others have posted many beneficial things in this forum.

I also think Solid is getting a bad rap here and its a bit unjustified. Solid is fighting game fan. He is also an MMA fan. Him being a fan of fighting games isnt a bad thing though because it gives the group balance. Its also not a bad thing because EA UFC is a hybrid fighting game/sports sim.

The amount of work that Solid has done on things like frames and other gameplay mechanics has been irreplaceble. There isnt another person on the GC team that could give that kind of input and the only person on the forums that could maybe do it is Sugata.

[Mossfan8480]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

I see similar statements like this all the time on OS and it makes me realize that this community (and sometimes myself) fail to see the big picture. For example, lets say you are the executive producer of this game: You just acknowledged that sports sim gamers are the minority. I'll take that a step further and say that this community cannot on its own support this game and reach enough sales to make it successful in EA's eyes. They need the "masses" in order to make this game successful and to guarantee that you keep your job. So do you take a chance and make the game uber realistic knowing that there is a chance that the casual crowd (the majority) may hate it and not buy the game? Do you move the crowd toward an arcade feel knowing that the hardcore fans will be vocal and laud about the direction the game is taking? Do you do what the devs seem to be doing in taking small steps toward pushing the game sim but not completely committing to it? Keep in mind, this is your job. If you are wrong and sales drop...you probably will be on the unemployment line.

Do you feel that NBA 2K or MLB the Show are not completely committed to sim?

Those are the two best sports game franchises out there right now in terms of quality, and both push to be accurate simulations of their respective sport. Casual and hardcore fans alike enjoy both franchises.

I don't understand the fear with making EA UFC a true sim. MMA at its core is a fight. People love fights. You give someone the option to watch a great MMA fight verse a great NBA Game, more often than not they will chose to watch the MMA fight.

MMA is exciting as it is, aside from the occasional lay'n'pray or clinch and stall. You don't need to arcade it up. Knowing any one punch could put you away, any one kick could knock your head off, any one take down could lead to your demise.

There's a reason this sport is the fastest growing sport in the world. Where is the confidence in the sport from the development team? Make it sim. Make it real. Make it unforgiving.

If there's one sport in the world you don't need to sugarcoat and add flash to, it's Mixed Martial Arts.

[The_Waterboy92]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

I see similar statements like this all the time on OS and it makes me realize that this community (and sometimes myself) fail to see the big picture. For example, lets say you are the executive producer of this game: You just acknowledged that sports sim gamers are the minority. I'll take that a step further and say that this community cannot on its own support this game and reach enough sales to make it successful in EA's eyes. They need the "masses" in order to make this game successful and to guarantee that you keep your job. So do you take a chance and make the game uber realistic knowing that there is a chance that the casual crowd (the majority) may hate it and not buy the game? Do you move the crowd toward an arcade feel knowing that the hardcore fans will be vocal and laud about the direction the game is taking? Do you do what the devs seem to be doing in taking small steps toward pushing the game sim but not completely committing to it? Keep in mind, this is your job. If you are wrong and sales drop...you probably will be on the unemployment line.

This is probably one of the most insightful comments. As you mentioned, we Merely make comments based on what we want to see in a game. The majority of us probably do not know what it’s like to create that type of game, and not to mention we cannot sustain an entire series. Games are continued based on sales and then the little things can be tweaked. This is why I think the focus was so large on the striking aspect of UFC3. Most people I talk to or go watch fights with only like the KOs and the kickboxing. They don’t appreciate the grappling, clinchwork, and submission game as much as some more hardcore fans do. And those people want to play a game where they can do that. They don’t want to worry as much about stamina management and grappling, they want to stand up and have a fun kickboxing match. Whether or not we agree or disagree with them doesn’t matter because in order to sell a game you have to cater to the most people possible. The sliders is a good way to hopefully experience the changes we want. Thanks for this new perspective

[Mossfan8480]

Quote: Originally Posted by The_Waterboy92

This is probably one of the most insightful comments. As you mentioned, we Merely make comments based on what we want to see in a game. The majority of us probably do not know what it’s like to create that type of game, and not to mention we cannot sustain an entire series. Games are continued based on sales and then the little things can be tweaked. This is why I think the focus was so large on the striking aspect of UFC3. Most people I talk to or go watch fights with only like the KOs and the kickboxing. They don’t appreciate the grappling, clinchwork, and submission game as much as some more hardcore fans do. And those people want to play a game where they can do that. They don’t want to worry as much about stamina management and grappling, they want to stand up and have a fun kickboxing match. Whether or not we agree or disagree with them doesn’t matter because in order to sell a game you have to cater to the most people possible. The sliders is a good way to hopefully experience the changes we want. Thanks for this new perspective

Who says they won't enjoy having to manage their stamina? Why are we blindly accepting this idea that the masses wouldn't enjoy an MMA sim?

These same arguments against having realistic stamina, fun grappling and clinch mechanics, can be made for every other sport.

Ready?

Most people I talk to don't like the nuances of NBA basketball, and just want dunks and 3-pointers. Therefore, playcalling and defense should take a back seat to allow us to do a lot of slam dunks and hit a lot of threes. It'll make the game more fun even if it's unrealistic that Lebron just did a 360 from the free throw line. People just want to score points and make exciting plays. Also there should be no stamina, everyone just wants to use the starting lineups. Who wants to have to sub Lebron or Curry out for some bench warmer.

MLB baseball is boring. Most people I talk to only care about Home Runs. They don't care about managing their pitching rotation or sac flys or bunting or stealing bases, they just want to see hits and homers. MLB the Show should make it so every player is on steroids, and possibly even the ball. Also 9 innings is too long, should be 6 innings max. This will sell the game, who cares if it's not sim.

I can do this for every sport, but I believe you get my point. Stop giving EA the cop out for MMA games that SIM won't work for the masses. It's worked for every other sport that has tried.

[godway]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mossfan8480

Who says they won't enjoy having to manage their stamina? Why are we blindly accepting this idea that the masses wouldn't enjoy an MMA sim? These same arguments against having realistic stamina, fun grappling and clinch mechanics, can be made for every other sport. Ready? Most people I talk to don't like the nuances of NBA basketball, and just want dunks and 3-pointers. Therefore, playcalling and defense should take a back seat to allow us to do a lot of slam dunks and hit a lot of threes. It'll make the game more fun even if it's unrealistic that Lebron just did a 360 from the free throw line. People just want to score points and make exciting plays. Also there should be no stamina, everyone just wants to use the starting lineups. Who wants to have to sub Lebron or Curry out for some bench warmer. MLB baseball is boring. Most people I talk to only care about Home Runs. They don't care about managing their pitching rotation or sac flys or bunting or stealing bases, they just want to see hits and homers. MLB the Show should make it so every player is on steroids, and possibly even the ball. Also 9 innings is too long, should be 6 innings max. This will sell the game, who cares if it's not sim. I can do this for every sport, but I believe you get my point. Stop giving EA the cop out for MMA games that SIM won't work for the masses.

This is why it's important to create a customized experience. So players can play the game they want to play. You can tailor games like the Show or NBA2K to play exactly how you want them to.

[Pappy Knuckles]

I truly respect that making games is hard work and that we don't know everything that goes on behind the scenes. That being said, that really shouldn't be any of our concerns. EA wants our money at the end of the day.

It's also understandable that once you get to know the devs personally and how things work, that perspectives can shift. For the rest of us, we're left to make suggestions simply based on what we want to see in an MMA game. That's it.

I feel like good solutions have been provided for most of the main issues that the community has. Whether through video examples or general concepts, there's plenty that can be used to improve this series.

To be clear, I understand that Aholbert was just making a general statement, using examples, and not calling people out personally. I'm also quite certain that all of the Game Changers are doing their best to help in whatever capacity they're capable of. I just think that as long as we keep it respectful to the people who work on these games, that everything is fair game.

And to piggyback on a post above mine, I have a very hard time understanding how making a simulation of the sport is a bad thing. I've argued this before, and I get that the game has to sell to the masses, but I don't know if we have strong evidence either way that supports realism hurting sales.

For as big as MMA has gotten, I don't think it'll ever reach the point of being truly mainstream. However, this sport does foster some of the most passionate fans you'll see in any sport. We're vocal, and that even carries over to the videogame world. I think everyone just wants a game they truly love and that represents the sport as best as possible.

Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk

[Nugget7211]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mossfan8480

Who says they won't enjoy having to manage their stamina? Why are we blindly accepting this idea that the masses wouldn't enjoy an MMA sim? These same arguments against having realistic stamina, fun grappling and clinch mechanics, can be made for every other sport. Ready? Most people I talk to don't like the nuances of NBA basketball, and just want dunks and 3-pointers. Therefore, playcalling and defense should take a back seat to allow us to do a lot of slam dunks and hit a lot of threes. It'll make the game more fun even if it's unrealistic that Lebron just did a 360 from the free throw line. People just want to score points and make exciting plays. Also there should be no stamina, everyone just wants to use the starting lineups. Who wants to have to sub Lebron or Curry out for some bench warmer. MLB baseball is boring. Most people I talk to only care about Home Runs. They don't care about managing their pitching rotation or sac flys or bunting or stealing bases, they just want to see hits and homers. MLB the Show should make it so every player is on steroids, and possibly even the ball. Also 9 innings is too long, should be 6 innings max. This will sell the game, who cares if it's not sim. I can do this for every sport, but I believe you get my point. Stop giving EA the cop out for MMA games that SIM won't work for the masses.

I think you went too extreme with your analogies man, all those things would make the sports look wrong superficially, whereas the stamina system not being impactful(or at least visually impactful) doesn't matter if 90% of your fights are lasting a round and a half maximum because you go balls out straight away and it won't make anything look wrong to a casual player, it'll just feel wrong to a more hardcore player.

To be clear, I'm not saying I wouldn't prefer sim, I would, but using something as extreme as "nothing but 3 pointers and dunks!" or "Only home runs!" for a stamina system that feels fine 9 times out of 10 for for two-thirds of a 3 round fight is a legitimately awful analogy. Like, those analogies would be appropriate if all you could throw was tornado kicks and flying knees.