"Pre-Denials"

[Boiler569]

Will 'pre-denials' in clinch and ground be handled differently in UFC 3?

I doubt it, but I hope this is considered.

I always felt that there was too much reward (or more precisely, too little risk) in pre-denials. Especially Takedown Defense Denials.

My hope would be that one - or both - of the following would be implemented if you miss a pre-denial (or just miss a denial in general, really):

* Longer Lockout period. There is already a lockout period but it seems pretty short. If for example you attempt a denial and miss --- and it takes 30 frames (1 second) for you to be able to deny again --- I'd like to see that boosted to 60 frames (2 seconds).

'Spamming' denials on the ground was an issue in UFC 2 IMO. Now....I know there is LAG and that sometimes you HAVE to pre deny hahaha....so it's not so simple....

* Higher Vulnerability / More Damage Taken --- simply put, if you miss a denial and subsequently take a strike, you should have higher vulnerability. Perhaps this made it into the new striking system? Hope so!

This wouldn't just apply to takedown defense though --- if you miss a denial in Clinch or on the ground, you're also more vulnerable to damage.

* Bigger swing in Grapple Advantage --- if I am Half Guard Sub and my opponent is 'spamming' denials to lay n pray -- I should get quite a large grapple advantage. This is already in the game I believe, but perhaps could use a boost?

* Decrease in Stamina --- missing denials makes you lose *long term* stamina. Maybe not a ton, but if you miss a dozen denials in the course of a round or two, it will have an effect (especially if your Grappling Stamina is low)


What do y'all think ???

Every REWARD needs a balanced RISK and I feel like 'denial spam' especially 'pre-deny spam' could be dealt with a bit better

[HereticGabriel]

I noticed trying to pre-deny causes you to lose stamina, so for those that when in say mount would strike and deny rifht after to try and predeny, doing that now will drain their stamina faster and if yourefast enough you can time your transitions off of the stamina drain as its also an indicator that they just tried to predeny

[AeroZeppelin27]

Hmm.. I'm not a fan of preemptive takedown denial. As it currently stands, I get that you could totally brace for a TD in real life. But in game a good player just shucks you off like you're Cro Cop tryna shoot a double, and you can't really try to clinch to initiate a TD as they deny that in half a second too.

But on the ground, against skilled players a failed preemptive denial immediately leads to them passing or gaining advantage and it feels nice and risky.

Against low level players or dedicated strikers, it becomes a case of "Oh you wanna get up? Oh I see, how about I jiggle about in north south a little" because they often try the same escapes over and over, you can just hold em there, gas them, and do whatever you want.

[Boiler569]

Quote: Originally Posted by HereticGabriel

I noticed trying to pre-deny causes you to lose stamina, so for those that when in say mount would strike and deny rifht after to try and predeny, doing that now will drain their stamina faster and if yourefast enough you can time your transitions off of the stamina drain as its also an indicator that they just tried to predeny

Very interesting. I didn't play around with this too much in the Beta, I'm mostly going off what I remember from UFC 2. I'll definitely have to look into this ASAP at launch.

On one hand I like the fact you get a stamina drain for a missed denial. On the other hand....if all your opponent has to do is watch your stamina bar, then when it 'bumps down' a little bit, he knows you're locked-out from a missed denial.....sorta lame....

Then again, in a 'real' grappling situation, you'd likely be able to tell when your opponent 'attempted a denial' (shifted his weight a certain way, for example) and you're able to counter quickly....

Somewhat related --- I *LOVE* the new transitions that were added. If we could have a half-dozen more transition types on the ground ---- perhaps *MAJOR* vs. *MINOR* Transitions even (???) ---- that could help increase the # of possibilities, meaning less chance for someone to 'pre-deny spam'

I will say though, I'm mostly concerned about the takedown aspect of denials/pre-denials. Ground & Clinch ---- could use a tweak, but not horrible IMO --- but I definitely feel that there is essentially no risk at all for pre-denying takedown attempts.

But maybe this was added in as a vulnerability feature in the new stand-up and we didn't notice it. Or something that could be added-in

Hope we can get some others' thoughts on this too!