GameDevs, wrestling is one the most important aspects of MMA

[WarMMA]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheGentlemanGhost

OOOOooooh that sprawl animation is such a visual pet peeve of mine. They can completely replace that particular sprawl animation with the double under clinch or a single leg clinch to transition from which I've been raving about. That would be ideal and I'd love it!

Yh I can't stand that sprawl animation either. So slow and unrealistic. No fighter just gives up on a td and settles into bottom position easy like that. Thing is they have the quick full sprawl in the game. Idk why they just don't make that one the regular sprawl...still ends up in the same position.

[UrbanSpaceman]

I agree, even in UFC 2 striking was way more fun than grappling, even with parries and all other flaws that ufc 2 striking had. Now UFC 3 will have a fundamentally very good striking system and grappling will look even more limited in comparison.

I think that the existing grappling system is fundamentally flawed. A minigame and qte-like system is not going to work for something as important as wrestling in ufc. Minigames are ok for side activities like lockpicking in RPGs and tennis and so on in GTA but for something that is half of MMA it's just not enough.

One way grappling could be overhauled could be to make it an extension of the striking system which is already good. I'm sure something similar has been suggested many times already, but you could have something like this: You have a 'Grappling modifier' button. Holding this button would turn a punch to the head into a hand grab of the head. With body modifier a body punch would turn into a grab of the torso. Pressing both strike buttons would get you a two handed grab of head such as in the plum clinch. You would also need controls for grab arm and grab leg with hand. The difference from striking would be that once you've grabbed e.g. the arm of the opponent your hand stays there, but the opponent can try to remove it. You could then mix normal strikes freely with grappling, you could have things like takedown battles and so on, submissions would not need a minigame but be just an extension of the grappling system.

I have no idea if this or some other overhaul of grappling is possible, afaik all games that had wrestling in it had something similar to the current system. This would definitely need a lot of new animations and be a huge undertaking. I believe though that without something different to replace the current system wrestling will always be the poor cousin of the UFC game mechanics.

[iceberg3445]

Quote: Originally Posted by UrbanSpaceman

I agree, even in UFC 2 striking was way more fun than grappling, even with parries and all other flaws that ufc 2 striking had. Now UFC 3 will have a fundamentally very good striking system and grappling will look even more limited in comparison. I think that the existing grappling system is fundamentally flawed. A minigame and qte-like system is not going to work for something as important as wrestling in ufc. Minigames are ok for side activities like lockpicking in RPGs and tennis and so on in GTA but for something that is half of MMA it's just not enough. One way grappling could be overhauled could be to make it an extension of the striking system which is already good. I'm sure something similar has been suggested many times already, but you could have something like this: You have a 'Grappling modifier' button. Holding this button would turn a punch to the head into a hand grab of the head. With body modifier a body punch would turn into a grab of the torso. Pressing both strike buttons would get you a two handed grab of head such as in the plum clinch. You would also need controls for grab arm and grab leg with hand. The difference from striking would be that once you've grabbed e.g. the arm of the opponent your hand stays there, but the opponent can try to remove it. You could then mix normal strikes freely with grappling, you could have things like takedown battles and so on, submissions would not need a minigame but be just an extension of the grappling system. I have no idea if this or some other overhaul of grappling is possible, afaik all games that had wrestling in it had something similar to the current system. This would definitely need a lot of new animations and be a huge undertaking. I believe though that without something different to replace the current system wrestling will always be the poor cousin of the UFC game mechanics.

I like the idea, but the concept of grabbing using different limbs seems a bit too complicated for new players (that said, as a MMA nerd, I appreciate the priority given to realism). Maybe I’m not quite understanding your idea. But I def agree that takedowns should include a struggle.

The current game doesn’t represent very well the element of wrestling, and I think changes/additions to the current grappling mechanics (the grapple dial) can make the grappling substantially better and more hands on.

To do this, game devs should put more emphasis on timing within the takedown defense window.

-TDs defended very early result in the fast sprawl animation.

-TDs defended early result in double undertook clinch.

-TDs defended in the middle of the window results in over-under clinch.

-Defending late against single leg TDs results on new single leg standing position and defending late against double leg TDs results in a “drive to the cage” animation that ends with the current takedown against the cage animation, unless the aggressor successfully completes the takedown during the “drive to the cage” animation, or the defender gets the aggressor in a standing headlock position.

These post TDD animations allow both players have various grapple options via the grapple dial like any other grappling position; I.e. from the single leg standing position, the aggressor can pull off an ankle pick, sweep the leg, or “turn the corner” to complete the takedown.

-Defend any later in the TD window results in a successful takedown or various other grappling positions.

But who knows, maybe GameDevs will create some new grapple mechanics that are more enjoyable and accessible than the current system.


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[TheJamesKraus]

There’s a new animation when you stuff a takedown, you pummel/frame and then pivot out.

I would like to see takedowns become more of a battle than they are now. Change it to rotating to stick for both attacking/defending or something along those lines.

[iceberg3445]

Quote: Originally Posted by iceberg3445

The current game doesn’t represent very well the element of wrestling, and I think changes/additions to the current grappling mechanics (the grapple dial) can make the grappling substantially better and more hands on. To do this, game devs should put more emphasis on timing within the takedown defense window. -TDs defended very early result in the fast sprawl animation. -TDs defended early result in double undertook clinch. -TDs defended in the middle of the window results in over-under clinch. -Defending late against single leg TDs results on new single leg standing position and defending late against double leg TDs results in a “drive to the cage” animation that ends with the current takedown against the cage animation, unless the aggressor successfully completes the takedown during the “drive to the cage” animation, or the defender gets the aggressor in a standing headlock position. These post TDD animations allow both players have various grapple options via the grapple dial like any other grappling position; I.e. from the single leg standing position, the aggressor can pull off an ankle pick, sweep the leg, or “turn the corner” to complete the takedown. -Defend any later in the TD window results in a successful takedown or various other grappling positions. Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Put simply, there needs to be more “grapple on the feet” animations that occur depending on when a takedown is defended in the TDD window. From these new animations/positions, both players can advance via the grapple dial (like all other grappling positions).

This adds a sense of struggle AND simplifies the current grappling system which requires players to use different controls when defending takedowns vs. reversing takedowns with the clinch.


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[Hayden]

Yeah, the striking is great now, but the grappling and clinch game just aren't good enough for release even after 2 previous games and a bunch of games by other devs before that to learn from.

I was hoping it'd be better when I played the Beta, but it really is basically the same as last year. I might get the game when its cheap or just wait to see what they do with EA UFC 4.

[UrbanSpaceman]

Quote: Originally Posted by iceberg3445

I like the idea, but the concept of grabbing using different limbs seems a bit too complicated for new players (that said, as a MMA nerd, I appreciate the priority given to realism). Maybe I’m not quite understanding your idea. But I def agree that takedowns should include a struggle.

Yes I did mean grabbing with different limbs, I can see how that could be complicated for new players, but UFC games are not always afraid of complexity, with current controls you have to press four buttons at the same time for some strikes, the vulnerability system and the stamina systems are fairly complex as well.
I think also complex systems are easier to understand if they're intuitive. I remember when I was first learning how to defend submissions in the ufc minigame how confusing it was at first even though it was so simple, simply because pushing the stick in different directions was completely disconnected from the actual process of submitting someone in wrestling.
Anyway it seems certain that there will be no major changes to wrestling in UFC 3, hopefully there might be something better in the next game.

[EarvGotti]

You guys do realize that ducking down before shooting for a TD makes the TD much easier and give you Grapple Advantage right?

Try it out.