Why does flattening someone in Back Mount drain YOUR Stamina

[TehFlame]

We've practiced that position in wrestling and it's really uncomfortable. It's just that if it's uncomfortable for you, it's even worse for the guy on bottom.

It hasn't been mentioned yet so maybe I did it wrong (I wasn't a leg rider, so I only did it during drills), but that position would CRUSH my balls. It's the biggest reason I hated it

[chia]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

I find it strange that you find that funny. Especially when he is quoting [b]actual professional fighters. I'm not downgrading Chia's experience because I think its valid but I think the take of multiple UFC fighters is also very valid.

Quote:

That and he also said it would be tiring on the legs and lower back, which is exactly what the fighters told us as well. Yeah, LOL.

I've cited in another post about the relation of the drain in real life versus what is reflected in game. That's the larger issue.

There is another complexity to it which is which (not asking you to name names) fighters you got the information from because a Cormier or Maia or Jacare could hold people in that position for weeks without feeling the stamina drain that is represented in the game. A striker with a decent grappling/wrestling base would feel it a little more sure but not like it is reflected in game.

I didn't approach this with a bronze fighter with low Grapple Stamina or anything. I used Gold fighters in multiple classes with high Grapple Stamina (85+) and they all got zapped of their stamina REALLY quickly against the cpu and against actual people when posturing from there.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Quote: Originally Posted by chia

I've cited in another post about the relation of the drain in real life versus what is reflected in game. That's the larger issue. There is another complexity to it which is which (not asking you to name names) fighters you got the information from because a Cormier or Maia or Jacare could hold people in that position for weeks without feeling the stamina drain that is represented in the game. A striker with a decent grappling/wrestling base would feel it a little more sure but not like it is reflected in game. I didn't approach this with a bronze fighter with low Grapple Stamina or anything. I used Gold fighters in multiple classes with high Grapple Stamina (85+) and they all got zapped of their stamina REALLY quickly against the cpu and against actual people when posturing from there.

Also keep in mind we've increased the long term stamina drain while grappling without re balancing this aspect (because we can't with a live tuner set).

It's something I want to address more holistically in a future patch.

[chia]

Quote: Originally Posted by GameplayDevUFC

Also keep in mind we've increased the long term stamina drain while grappling without re balancing this aspect (because we can't with a live tuner set). It's something I want to address more holistically in a future patch.

I didn't know this couldn't be done through the live tuner system. I would suggest getting back in touch with some of the fighters you have contact with (especially those with a concentration in BJJ or Wrestling) to get a more complete idea about the draining strikes from each of the positions that would need to be altered EVER SO SLIGHTLY to present a more complete picture.

Also certain situational aspects like someone postured from Mount (not Back Mount this time) wouldn't be able to stop the Upa (unless you are dazed from strikes) so it should be easier to Upa (bump the hips) than it currently is. More like a flicking motion as soon as they posture in Mount which should feel more organic and fluid. I'm only speaking on current animations in the game. Maybe lowering windows or something like that.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Quote: Originally Posted by chia

I didn't know this couldn't be done through the live tuner system. I would suggest getting back in touch with some of the fighters you have contact with (especially those with a concentration in BJJ or Wrestling) to get a more complete idea about the draining strikes from each of the positions that would need to be altered EVER SO SLIGHTLY to present a more complete picture. Also certain situational aspects like someone postured from Mount (not Back Mount this time) wouldn't be able to stop the Upa (unless you are dazed from strikes) so it should be easier to Upa (bump the hips) than it currently is. More like a flicking motion as soon as they posture in Mount which should feel more organic and fluid. I'm only speaking on current animations in the game. Maybe lowering windows or something like that.

It's a delicate balance because of the limited offensive and defensive options in mount.

We don't want to make finishing in mount too difficult by making the defensive options too strong, even if those options in isolation aren't as true to life in terms of difficulty as they should be.

[johnmangala]

Quote: Originally Posted by chia

It's in reality the most dominant position to be in in MMA so it should be over powered because that reflects reality. To address balance shorten the denial window to allow for the opponent to turn and put their back to the mat and go back to Mount. You DO NOT gas from being postured up on someone in Back Mount after 10-15 seconds in real life. Yet that's what happens in game.

It should be the most dominant position, but it is already more dangerous than mount but easier to get out of.

I say it because it's probably the same reason single collar punches won't get health events or clinch breaks, because they may feel it becomes too overpowered.

[chia]

Quote: Originally Posted by johnmangala

It should be the most dominant position, but it is already more dangerous than mount but easier to get out of. I say it because it's probably the same reason single collar punches won't get health events or clinch breaks, because they may feel it becomes too overpowered.

There could be tweaks or trade off to give them the rewarding feeling they should have.

Like Back Mount postured - lower the stamina drain to the top player dramatically but lower the transition time for the person on bottom to turn over and slightly lower the denials-interrupts

Or Single Collar - increase the punching power substantially but lower the break transition speed substantially

You can still have give and take and give the positions and strikes the proper reflection of real life without breaking the game.

[Dave_S]

If there was an easy way to simulate postured up with hooks in I'd be interested for people to see how long they could hold it. :
Especially if leaning forward a bit.

I wish it didn't drain your stamina in the game, especially now, lol. I'm okay with stamina penalty though, but I'm certainly not against tweaking it.