Online "tuning" vs. Offline

[iHazCode]

It seems to me that the "high level" ranked online crowd drives everything for this game. Which usually ends up being game mechanics > realism. For a guy like me who is hoping to have a good offline experience someday this is seeming less and less likely because what is good for "high level ranked" is not good for Offline, or lower level ranked.

As an example, this whole body punch thing. Making them less effective, makes someone who uses them realistically have to basically spam them to achieve an effect. Net result, slant towards pillow fight territory.

I feel like molding the game around the few people who spam stuff is not going to end well overall. Does anyone else have thoughts on this, or does it make sense that these games should be tailored for the high level/competitive/elite players and other categories will fall in line?

[Nugget7211]

It's been just over 6 hours since the tuner, give it a little more time.

Having said that, in my experience so far, landing well timed, good body shots works fine still, as does kicking the body, or ground and pound and clinch strikes to body. There are plenty of ways to make an attrition based style work, all that changed that I can tell is that just winging body shots willy nilly won't really get you very far, you have to choose relatively smart body shots or you'll get countered really hard.

[aholbert32]

Welcome to one of the bigger debates the GCs have.

On one side, some feel that its a trickle down effect. That the changes that top 10% demand because of exploits or other issues will either be good or wont matter to lower level fighters/offline fighters.

On the other side (mostly me), the belief is that while some of these changes may help offline gamers not all of them do. I dont believe that we are equally aligned because we are looking for different things from the game.

I play the game because I love MMA and I want to have realistic/sim experience playing the game. I dont really care if I win or lose as long as I lost because of a realistic reason. If I'm facing Khabib with Kevin Lee, I expect that there is a good chance that I will lose (especially if we are grappling) and I'm OK with it.

Many high level ranked fighters play the game because they love MMA but also because they want to win. I'm not saying that they dont care about realism at all but not to the level of someone like me. They arent looking for a strict simulation at all times.

I guess a simple way to look at it is offline gamers at OS are typically looking for a simulation while high level ranked fighters are looking for a simulation/game. There is a difference between those things and that sometimes leads to issues.

[MeowingForVengeance]

As someone who plays 99% offline, I haven't seen many propositions for changes that move away from realism. The changes to body punches make it so you have to use them like real fighters use them to achieve the desired effect. Most of the people advocating for changes (here, at least) want a more realistic game.

I don't see how online play will ever be a good representation of any sport, though. In football games no one punts, in baseball games people get pissed if you throw breaking balls, in UFC people spam strikes. That's why I'm content to play against AI (well, except when they check all the leg kicks).

[iceberg3445]

Quote: Originally Posted by iHazCode

It seems to me that the "high level" ranked online crowd drives everything for this game. Which usually ends up being game mechanics > realism. For a guy like me who is hoping to have a good offline experience someday this is seeming less and less likely because what is good for "high level ranked" is not good for Offline, or lower level ranked. As an example, this whole body punch thing. Making them less effective, makes someone who uses them realistically have to basically spam them to achieve an effect. Net result, slant towards pillow fight territory. I feel like molding the game around the few people who spam stuff is not going to end well overall. Does anyone else have thoughts on this, or does it make sense that these games should be tailored for the high level/competitive/elite players and other categories will fall in line?

I 100% agree with this. Somewhat frustrated at the lack of noise about the imbalanced grappling system.

I don’t play online and the primary game issues that affect my gameplay experience are grappling-related. Primarily the input lag betw/ striking and grappling.

Body shot spamming wasn’t even on my radar...




Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[iHazCode]

Thanks for the legit GC insight aholbert32. I am much of the same, I play games and don't care if it's win/lose as long as I feel it is realistic when the genre aims for it. Arma and Operation Flashpoint are good alternate examples of this.

I ask in part because I play the game and really enjoy MMA, but also because I am a Software Engineer/Architect myself and these types of "puzzles" intrigue me. I feel like Take2 or whoever is responsible for the NBA2k series did a good job with this. Unfortunately as for MMA the only comparison I have is the Undisputed and EA MMA series (particularly UD3), but I never played either or those online.

As a side note, I wouldn't play this online if I didn't have to either, but alas...

Thanks again.

[YourFatZebra]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

Welcome to one of the bigger debates the GCs have. On one side, some feel that its a trickle down effect. That the changes that top 10% demand because of exploits or other issues will either be good or wont matter to lower level fighters/offline fighters. On the other side (mostly me), the belief is that while some of these changes may help offline gamers not all of them do. I dont believe that we are equally aligned because we are looking for different things from the game. I play the game because I love MMA and I want to have realistic/sim experience playing the game. I dont really care if I win or lose as long as I lost because of a realistic reason. If I'm facing Khabib with Kevin Lee, I expect that there is a good chance that I will lose (especially if we are grappling) and I'm OK with it. Many high level ranked fighters play the game because they love MMA but also because they want to win. I'm not saying that they dont care about realism at all but not to the level of someone like me. They arent looking for a strict simulation at all times. I guess a simple way to look at it is offline gamers at OS are typically looking for a simulation while high level ranked fighters are looking for a simulation/game. There is a difference between those things and that sometimes leads to issues.

I think that's why I can usually understand multiple points when different discussions come up here. Because even though I am a mainly online player (I usually play competitive games, that's my whole background. PUBG, COD, Battlefield, etc.) I also am an MMA hardcore with Autism. So I too would love for the game to be as simulation based as possible, as I've always believed the small details are what really make something go from ggod to great.

At the same time, being someone who plays online as much as I do, if given the choice between the two things, I'd definitely choose mechanically quality over realism. It depends on the scenario, but most times I'd probably choose what was better mechanically. Though I would not be willing to sacrifice realism to an extent where I'm arguing for unrealistic things to be added to the game. I personally don't think the correction on the body shot issue was an overstep. Even if you hadn't experienced it in lower levels yet, leaving it unchecked for long enough could make it a permanent part of the meta to where you're even seeing it playing with homies (like transition faking or throwing the head kick during the stand-up animation) and that would be bad for everyone. Even still, I don't see how that would affect offline play that drastically. From my testing with it earlier, it doesn't seem like the changes made a large enough difference to "nerf" the body shots.

Gaming communities for some reason seem to think there's two ways to fix something. "Nerf" or "Buff" the **** out of it, no middle ground. There's no tweaking and tuning to get stuff to the perfect level. You either make it crap, make it godly, or take it out entirely. I think that's an oversimplification, and with a game like this you want to fine tune as many details as you can. If that means putting out a patch here or there, doing some trial and error, so be it. I honestly don't think what they did was an overstep, though I do think discussing the different mindsets of the player base is interesting.

[iHazCode]

Definitely.

Also I must say, even though I play Online a lot now. I do hope the people who play online (and like this franchise more than a fad), consider the games utility beyond the servers being available. Experience shows, MMA game droughts are real, and at this point I am torn on if I'd play this or UD3 in 5 years if there are no other options. Keeping a previous gen console for one or two games is a drag either way.