For players wanting more realism, this next patch is shaping up to be a disappointment

[iceberg3445]

Based on comments from gamedevs, the upcoming patch is geared towards appeasing online competition and not sport simulation. Folks who play offline or unranked are unlikely to notice any changes, and that’s a problem, because changes are badly needed. This is an incomplete game, but instead of focusing on creating a well-rounded MMA game, gamedevs are fixated on appeasing the 5-10% of players that play competitively online. They are focusing on minutia with the standup and ultimately moving in the wrong direction by overlooking major inconsistencies that would fix a lot of the stand up problems.

Appeasing the online competition likely means knees and elbows will be nerfed into oblivion, while real life solutions to fighting on the outside - better side-to-side movement to circle out, a more dynamic and dangerous clinch, faster kicks that require less stamina - will not be included (bc too much work?). If improved footwork is added, it will come in the form of added range for advanced lunges, which has the potential to look ridiculous (I hope I’m wrong).

Like usual, the clinch and ground games are probably being overlooked and even nerfed to appease online competition, which would rather fight standing than clinch or work on the ground.

This is MMA, not kickboxing. It’s dangerous and dynamic. Players can’t stand in your face and throw elbows because you can either move and circle out, throw dangerous speedy kicks from a distance, or clinch-takedown-and maul. But instead of adding/improving these elements, the game is moving closer and closer to rock-em sock-em robots style of EA UFC 2. The clinch, which is one real life solution to inside fighting, isn’t worth the risk in the game. There is a virtual no-man’s-land between the stand up and ground games, and the stand up is suffering as a result.

I hope I’m wrong, but so far, gamedevs have only shown interest in nerfing standup and steering players away from clinch/ground rather than forcing players to fight dynamically.

There is 2/3 of a game here, ground and stand up need attention, sure, but they both can be utilized successfully by players. Meanwhile the clinch has little reward and has been pushed aside.

Why are we fixating on standup when there basically is no effective way to grapple on the feet in this game? How about fixing the clinch to give it utility and creating a complete and well-rounded MMA game? Doing this would indirectly fix a lot of the current problems with the stand up.




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[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by iceberg3445

Based on comments from gamedevs, the upcoming patch is geared towards appeasing online competition and not sport simulation. Folks who play offline or unranked are unlikely to notice any changes, and that’s a problem, because changes are badly needed. This is an incomplete game, but instead of focusing on creating a well-rounded MMA game, gamedevs are fixated on appeasing the 5-10% of players that play competitively online. They are focusing on minutia with the standup and ultimately moving in the wrong direction by overlooking major inconsistencies that would fix a lot of the stand up problems. Appeasing the online competition likely means knees and elbows will be nerfed into oblivion, while real life solutions to fighting on the outside - better side-to-side movement to circle out, a more dynamic and dangerous clinch, faster kicks that require less stamina - will not be included (bc too much work?). If improved footwork is added, it will come in the form of added range for advanced lunges, which has the potential to look ridiculous (I hope I’m wrong). Like usual, the clinch and ground games are probably being overlooked and even nerfed to appease online competition, which would rather fight standing than clinch or work on the ground. This is MMA, not kickboxing. It’s dangerous and dynamic. Players can’t stand in your face and throw elbows because you can either move and circle out, throw dangerous speedy kicks from a distance, or clinch-takedown-and maul. But instead of adding/improving these elements, the game is moving closer and closer to rock-em sock-em robots style of EA UFC 2. The clinch, which is one real life solution to inside fighting, isn’t worth the risk in the game. There is a virtual no-man’s-land between the stand up and ground games, and the stand up is suffering as a result. I hope I’m wrong, but so far, gamedevs have only shown interest in nerfing standup and steering players away from clinch/ground rather than forcing players to fight dynamically. There is 2/3 of a game here, ground and stand up need attention, sure, but they both can be utilized successfully by players. Meanwhile the clinch has little reward and has been pushed aside. Why are we fixating on standup when there basically is no effective way to grapple on the feet in this game? How about fixing the clinch to give it utility and creating a complete and well-rounded MMA game? Doing this would indirectly fix a lot of the current problems with the stand up. Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Alot of assumptions based on absolutely nothing.

Skynet has already confirmed alot of fixes for AI which ONLY affects offline players.

I havent seen GPD or any dev say "knees and elbows will be nerfed into oblivion". In fact, I've seen GPD comment that they are working on things to help people fight on the outside.

[bmlimo]

tbh... offline if they fix some ai problems will be much more fun than online...

i think they need to fix this for the online:
>more stamina tax(a lot more)
> doubleleg and singleleg
>some ground issues(cant transit while your opponent is about to strike in sprawl position for example)
> footwork
>stationary sway

Combos are strange... to fast and almost no stamina taxes... but i don't think they would change it now...

[iceberg3445]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

Alot of assumptions based on absolutely nothing. Skynet has already confirmed alot of fixes for AI which ONLY affects offline players. I havent seen GPD or any dev say "knees and elbows will be nerfed into oblivion". In fact, I've seen GPD comment that they are working on things to help people fight on the outside.

Sure, but I think it’s a fair assumption. Gamedev recently said something along the lines of the upcoming patch will not likely be noticed by players out of touch with meta, but that online competitive players that rely on cheese/exploits will have the earth shift beneath their feet.

Based on forum discussions, cheese and exploits consist of people who block non stop and throw knees/elbows - amongst other things. It’s rational to think that part of a fix here (in addition to changing blocking mechanics) would be nerfing knees and elbows.

Knees and elbows should be dangerous imo, but it should be more difficult to close distance on an opponent and land dangerous knees and elbows than it currently is. This is partially because of an inability to move laterally at a quick pace, and partially because of a nerfed clinch, which would allow players to tie up an opponent closing distance. Right now, tying an opponent up in the clinch is more dangerous than beneficial.


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[ExOicho]

Stupid thread. Almost every post about what devs are looking into is related to both balance AND realism.

[iceberg3445]

Quote: Originally Posted by ExOicho

Stupid thread. Almost every post about what devs are looking into is related to both balance AND realism.

Stupid is a bit strong. Pessimistic maybe.

Have you seen any mention of fixing the clinch (other than the takedown escape exploit)?

When someone is walking you down, one solution is to grab them and fire off dangerous elbows/knees or put them on their back and tire them out. Try clinching against spammers throwing rapid fire shots from short range and you’ll likely get rocked. It’s pretty darn easy to grab someone when they’re walking toward you in real life. Not in the game though


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[bmlimo]

Quote: Originally Posted by iceberg3445

Sure, but I think it’s a fair assumption. Gamedev recently said something along the lines of the upcoming patch will not likely be noticed by players out of touch with meta, but that online competitive players that rely on cheese/exploits will have the earth shift beneath their feet. Based on forum discussions, cheese and exploits consist of people who block non stop and throw knees/elbows - amongst other things. It’s rational to think that part of a fix here (in addition to changing blocking mechanics) would be nerfing knees and elbows. Knees and elbows should be dangerous imo, but it should be more difficult to close distance on an opponent and land dangerous knees and elbows than it currently is. This is partially because of an inability to move laterally at a quick pace, and partially because of a nerfed clinch, which would allow players to tie up an opponent closing distance. Right now, tying an opponent up in the clinch is more dangerous than beneficial. Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

there's a lot of cheese going on...

[iceberg3445]

Quote: Originally Posted by bmlimo

there's a lot of cheese going on...

There definitely is.

Cheese exists in real life MMA. Leg kicks, takedowns, clinch, etc. Fighters spam when thy see that their opponent isn’t countering. You can’t cheese if players have an ability to appropriately counter (I.e. check leg kicks, defend takedowns).

Problem is, one solution to players unfairly closing distance and throwing elbows/knees is clinch and control or clinch and punish. This should be available to players being walked down and elbow/knee spammed, but it isn’t. Engaging in the clinch is far too dangerous atm, and the clinch is not dangerous (unless in MT clinch).


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