This would improve the wrestling system

[The Relaxed Guy]

Contrary to common knowledge, I believe the wrestling actually CAN be improved upon... without revamping the game. This one simple solution is designed as a compromise of sorts - not too complicated to implement, yet enough to satisfy players.

The wrestling game can be drastically improved with one fix: just add the ability to shoot a double or single leg takedown from against the cage clinch positions.

From against the cage clinch positions (over under, double under, single collar, etc.), add the ability to shoot, and force it right into the already existent against-the-cage-takedown-position. No sprawls, no completed takedowns... when you shoot from against the cage, just make it go straight to that position no matter what. Make this a blockable transition - I should have to fill the yellow circle to get down on the legs from clinch positions. This would stop the issue of spamming into the position.

The new cage TD position is actually incredibly deep, with numerous options for both sub and dom... BUT PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE THIS BECAUSE YOU RARELY END UP THERE!

So let's review this. In clinch positions against the cage, add the ability to shoot a double or single leg - and (here's the important part) make doing so leads directly into the already existent cage TD position. Don't allow this to result in a full takedown - only the cage TD position. (Make this a blockable transition. If defender blocks this transition, you remain in the same position as you were before attempting the transition.)

Let's deepen this wrestling system a bit, and increase the frequency of the cage TD position. This doesn't require revamping the game.


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[Phillyboi207]

Not only that but have late denials end up in overunder when not against the cage.

Have stuffed TDs take a little more perm stam to balance the risk/reward

[HereticGabriel]

That may give more options, but the trips basically do the same thing, as far as getting takedowns, no? I main issue with the wrestling is the length it takes to get a takedown, the inconsistent range for shots, and just how easy it is to stoo a takedown even when all variables should be in favor of the guy shooting. Missed kicks, blocking the strikes to your head as they shoot, winging punches that just got ducked under as they shoot a double or single?

Currently the best bet aside from against the cage, is to double jab or 1-2 into single collar, and work your way to a takedown from there. I can score the odd takedown here and there from standing, but in UFC 2 I had amazing timing and had my takedowns nearly instant/predeny only territory 8/10 times unless I messed up on the timing or not playing a high takedown stat guy, such as Joe Lauzon when I used him lol

[ExOicho]

it still wouldn't fix the fact that there's essentially no "struggle" or actual wrestling to begin with. You're doing an animation and it either gets cancelled or it doesn't. There's no sense of wrestling or putting people off balance to create openings. you do a few punches and then you do a (bad) double leg takedown animation and watch a bar fill up.

[The Relaxed Guy]

Quote: Originally Posted by ExOicho

it still wouldn't fix the fact that there's essentially no "struggle" or actual wrestling to begin with. You're doing an animation and it either gets cancelled or it doesn't. There's no sense of wrestling or putting people off balance to create openings. you do a few punches and then you do a (bad) double leg takedown animation and watch a bar fill up.

It would absolutely deepen the wrestling. It would make wrestling sequences a little more intricate and make it feel like there's more of a struggle. And it's really our only hope of getting a deeper wrestling system before UFC 4 because of the simplicity of the fix.

If you're having trouble picturing it, here's an example of a wrestling sequence that could happen if my solution was implemented. Tell me this doesn't add depth to the wrestling system:

Fighter A gets double underhooks on Fighter B, pushing them against the cage. Fighter B pummels and gets an underhook, then uses the underhook to reverse position and push Fighter A against the cage in over/under position. From here, fighter A attempts reverse back, but Fighter B denies it. Fighter B then drops levels to the cage double leg position. From here, fighter A attempts to pummel an underhook, but Fighter B denies it, then finishes the double leg. Fighter A uses the cage walk transition to stand back up into over/under, but fighter B again again immediately drops into the cage TD position, this time finishing with a slam into side control.


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[The Relaxed Guy]

Quote: Originally Posted by HereticGabriel

That may give more options, but the trips basically do the same thing, as far as getting takedowns, no?

It's not about "getting takedowns". I know that the trips exist. It's about making the wrestling more intricate, as opposed to the bland system in place now. It adds more options to "work for takedowns", not just to "get takedowns".




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[iceberg3445]

Quote: Originally Posted by The Relaxed Guy

It would absolutely deepen the wrestling. It would make wrestling sequences a little more intricate and make it feel like there's more of a struggle. And it's really our only hope of getting a deeper wrestling system before UFC 4 because of the simplicity of the fix. If you're having trouble picturing it, here's an example of a wrestling sequence that could happen if my solution was implemented. Tell me this doesn't add depth to the wrestling system: Fighter A gets double underhooks on Fighter B, pushing them against the cage. Fighter B pummels and gets an underhook, then uses the underhook to reverse position and push Fighter A against the cage in over/under position. From here, fighter A attempts reverse back, but Fighter B denies it. Fighter B then drops levels to the cage double leg position. From here, fighter A attempts to pummel an underhook, but Fighter B denies it, then finishes the double leg. Fighter A uses the cage walk transition to stand back up into over/under, but fighter B again again immediately drops into the cage TD position, this time finishing with a slam into side control. Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

I really hope to see wrestling sequences like this in the game in the future. Well put.

I think you propose a solid and (relatively) easy solution to (somewhat) fill in the wrestling gap in this game. The takedown against the cage animation was a great start. Adding doubles/singles when against the cage would be a good way to further build on that.

That addition plus chain takedowns and a mobile clinch, and we might have a complete MMA game on our hands...


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[magx950]

Quote: Originally Posted by The Relaxed Guy

It would absolutely deepen the wrestling. It would make wrestling sequences a little more intricate and make it feel like there's more of a struggle. And it's really our only hope of getting a deeper wrestling system before UFC 4 because of the simplicity of the fix. If you're having trouble picturing it, here's an example of a wrestling sequence that could happen if my solution was implemented. Tell me this doesn't add depth to the wrestling system: Fighter A gets double underhooks on Fighter B, pushing them against the cage. Fighter B pummels and gets an underhook, then uses the underhook to reverse position and push Fighter A against the cage in over/under position. From here, fighter A attempts reverse back, but Fighter B denies it. Fighter B then drops levels to the cage double leg position. From here, fighter A attempts to pummel an underhook, but Fighter B denies it, then finishes the double leg. Fighter A uses the cage walk transition to stand back up into over/under, but fighter B again again immediately drops into the cage TD position, this time finishing with a slam into side control. Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

it would be better but it would still be a garbage, unrealistic simulation of wrestling because the core of the game's grappling system is deeply flawed. that was the point. It'll never reflect real wrestling under this system.