Picking grapplers feels pointless

[UFCBlackbelt]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

One, the only change to decisions in the past two patches was a reduction in the value sub attempts are judged. The reason why was because people were just spamming sub attempts (even if it didnt get past the first stage) to win rounds. Two, out of 60 plus patch changes, these are the only ones that have to do with grappling: Tuned takedown and clinch denial stamina logic to make consecutively denied attempts more punishing. (That makes it more difficult to spam takedowns and clinches. The key word is "consecutively". So if you arent spamming them and actually setting them up, the new stamina logic wont affect you) Added ability to queue takedowns and clinch attempts after strikes Added ability to quick transition to takedown attempts after ducking and striking (These actually buff takedowns from what they were at release). Tuned grapple ratings impact on transition speeds (People univerally complained that at release people could just dominate with guys like Khabib even if they were using someone with similar grappling. This fixed that issue.) Tuned referee standup/break timer on the ground and in the clinch(People asked for quicker standups since UFC 2) Force denial to sprawl on takedown attempts from the clinch (This fixed a bug). Tune takedown speed and ranges(This was an attempt to speed up the single and fix the super fast double from outside) Add momentum advantage off sub crucifix transition cancel Turn off grapple advantage when holding block in single collar (Fixing exploits) Out of 60 plus changes, 8 were focused on grappling. I guess my question is: What the hell are you talking about? All of those changes either were to fix exploits or fight spam or actually improved grappling.

You make it sound as if a lot of these were fair gameplay balances but they aren't, and I am saying this as a person who prefers striking.

The combination to takedown is almost pointless since takedowns still come out at slow speeds. The only times I have gotten single/double take down is when someone thinks I am going to clinch or if they completely whiff a head kick, or if they don't know how to predeny a checked kick. When you know you are fighting a grappler it is very easy to predeny on checked kicks, and clinch denial isn't too hard.

Tuning grappling stats made it easier for me to survive as Wonderboy against Maia, but the same can't be said for Maia against Wonderboy standing. As Thompson I still possess knockout power, speed and stamina.

The standups are a bit too fast, with how easy it is to deny everything with the grappling tuneup. Since posturing up has an enormous risk of losing what you worked for, you end up being forced to make a decision. Again, where is this in standup? How would you feel if you got penalized for moving back too much?

Lastly, takedowns were tuned to reduce their speed, but of course rather than making it balanced it's extremely slow.

Most of these changes have not benefited Grapplers, most have benefited strikers. I find it incredibly easy to stop Top ranked guys when I am using a fighter who should be in huge trouble on the ground. The only patch I think made an actual beneficial change was the TD glitch from clinch, since clinch takedowns are the most effective method of taking down opponents (as in ea ufc 2).

There should be actual incentives for people trying to move away from grapplers. Staying close to them doesn't really present much a risk if you learn basic clinch denials.

[MacGowan]

Quote: Originally Posted by UFCBlackbelt

There should be actual incentives for people trying to move away from grapplers. Staying close to them doesn't really present much a risk if you learn basic clinch denials.

This 100%.....

[iceberg3445]

I said this in another thread, but will say it here:

I think the reason top-ranked players generally want the clinch/ground game nerfed is because it’s not as enjoyable or balanced as the standup. It’s not that they want a kickboxing game, but they want an enjoyable and fair gameplay experience on the feet AND ground; and currently can only find that with the stand up.

If you look at old threads, it’s pretty obvious that most players on this forum want a clinch/ground game similar to UD3. Unfortunately that’s not doable, probably not even in the next EA iteration.

That energy will be better served if redirected. The community should push gamedevs to improve on EA UFC’s current grapple mechanics, which I think could be made more enjoyable than UD3 (if given the proper attention from game devs).

Start by fixing the clinch and takedown mechanics to better integrate with the new striking gameplay, and then go from there.



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[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by UFCBlackbelt

You make it sound as if a lot of these were fair gameplay balances but they aren't, and I am saying this as a person who prefers striking. The combination to takedown is almost pointless since takedowns still come out at slow speeds. The only times I have gotten single/double take down is when someone thinks I am going to clinch or if they completely whiff a head kick, or if they don't know how to predeny a checked kick. When you know you are fighting a grappler it is very easy to predeny on checked kicks, and clinch denial isn't too hard. Tuning grappling stats made it easier for me to survive as Wonderboy against Maia, but the same can't be said for Maia against Wonderboy standing. As Thompson I still possess knockout power, speed and stamina. The standups are a bit too fast, with how easy it is to deny everything with the grappling tuneup. Since posturing up has an enormous risk of losing what you worked for, you end up being forced to make a decision. Again, where is this in standup? How would you feel if you got penalized for moving back too much? Lastly, takedowns were tuned to reduce their speed, but of course rather than making it balanced it's extremely slow. Most of these changes have not benefited Grapplers, most have benefited strikers. I find it incredibly easy to stop Top ranked guys when I am using a fighter who should be in huge trouble on the ground. The only patch I think made an actual beneficial change was the TD glitch from clinch, since clinch takedowns are the most effective method of taking down opponents (as in ea ufc 2). There should be actual incentives for people trying to move away from grapplers. Staying close to them doesn't really present much a risk if you learn basic clinch denials.

You are arguing points I’m not making.

Once again. I said that the devs aren’t actively nerfing grappling. That was my point.

I also said that the focus in patches has clearly been on striking but that doesn’t mean there aren’t going to be grappling changes down the line.

If you are unhappy with the changes, cool. Continue to let the devs know. My point is that many of these changes were requested by this community.


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[WarMMA]

So after some experimenting, i'll definitely say the td's are a bit too slow from certain ranges. I think the devs had the right idea here, but there just needs to be a few tweaks to it imo. My suggestion to the devs would be to speed the td's back up to what they were for all ranges when you're out of range. Right now things are definitely too slow...especially the double. All that really needed to be done was to decrease the distance the td's covered tbh. That's been done but the slow down is kinda killing the wrestling right now...you can see a double coming and have time to eat a snack before you defend it.

[SMOKEZERO]

The ability to stuff takedowns while rocked is way too easy. Also feel having your block meter low should hurt your ability to stuff TDs. Combo takedowns could use a speed buff. The double was nerfed too hard and needs a buff too.


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[Papadoc60]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

One, the only change to decisions in the past two patches was a reduction in the value sub attempts are judged. The reason why was because people were just spamming sub attempts (even if it didnt get past the first stage) to win rounds. Two, out of 60 plus patch changes, these are the only ones that have to do with grappling: Tuned takedown and clinch denial stamina logic to make consecutively denied attempts more punishing. (That makes it more difficult to spam takedowns and clinches. The key word is "consecutively". So if you arent spamming them and actually setting them up, the new stamina logic wont affect you) Added ability to queue takedowns and clinch attempts after strikes Added ability to quick transition to takedown attempts after ducking and striking (These actually buff takedowns from what they were at release). Tuned grapple ratings impact on transition speeds (People univerally complained that at release people could just dominate with guys like Khabib even if they were using someone with similar grappling. This fixed that issue.) Tuned referee standup/break timer on the ground and in the clinch(People asked for quicker standups since UFC 2) Force denial to sprawl on takedown attempts from the clinch (This fixed a bug). Tune takedown speed and ranges(This was an attempt to speed up the single and fix the super fast double from outside) Add momentum advantage off sub crucifix transition cancel Turn off grapple advantage when holding block in single collar (Fixing exploits) Out of 60 plus changes, 8 were focused on grappling. I guess my question is: What the hell are you talking about? All of those changes either were to fix exploits or fight spam or actually improved grappling.

I get what you are saying here that you are simply making a distinction that these were changes the community asked for and that the devs don't seek to nerf grappling. The issue is that you are listing changes patched for grappling as if they were beneficial or should support your argument that the devs don't want to nerf grappling that actually don't help your case for reasons outlined in the following comments like the changes you clarify are supposed to help grappling but didn't. You also point out that the devs literally nerfed the effectiveness of ground control stats.

The referee standups and breaks, lack of reliable way to score tds, the faster clinch break transitions, crucifix nerf, and added stamina tax for repeat tds ( when tds are already hard enough to score as is ). The knockdown and rock stamina tax also heavily favored strikers. I do agree that a lot of these are changes requested on this forum, but the pace they are being implemented and without a care for the balance of striking+grappling is definitely alarming and I don't think it's unreasonable to say so.

[UFCBlackbelt]

Quote: Originally Posted by iceberg3445

I said this in another thread, but will say it here: I think the reason top-ranked players generally want the clinch/ground game nerfed is because it’s not as enjoyable or balanced as the standup. It’s not that they want a kickboxing game, but they want an enjoyable and fair gameplay experience on the feet AND ground; and currently can only find that with the stand up. If you look at old threads, it’s pretty obvious that most players on this forum want a clinch/ground game similar to UD3. Unfortunately that’s not doable, probably not even in the next EA iteration. That energy will be better served if redirected. The community should push gamedevs to improve on EA UFC’s current grapple mechanics, which I think could be made more enjoyable than UD3 (if given the proper attention from game devs). Start by fixing the clinch and takedown mechanics to better integrate with the new striking gameplay, and then go from there. Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

This limits a huge amount of the playable fighters. Why bother playing Kevin Lee, Hendricks, Matt Hughes.