Back mount from top control

[sdpdude9]

We need an option to take our opponents back when on top. Currently the only way to do it is for the opponent to give up their back when mounted or from a sprawl position. I think the dominate fighter should have a better option to do this. Perhaps from mount or high level bjj guys can from half guard. Even reversal from a transition would be better. I just want to be able to fight like Maia and take backs, but when the opponent never goes to that position it's impossible. Its easier from the bottom to take backs which is just weird.

[johnmangala]

Maia did this against Condit, it would be a good add.

[Ksearyback]

I think this is the problem with trying to create a realistic grappling experience, while limited with options creating more linear play.

That said, I'd prefer realism (in terms of legitimate transition chains etc.) over forced options that aren't real. Taking the back from most positions, definitely including mount, tends to require the opponent to make a mistake and 'give up the back.'

I like the big picture idea though. To the point about Maia taking someones back from mount, the guy must have done a poor escape or allowed Maia to control his arm for leverage. Maybe the game can simply add more scenarios to the situational tree of moves for certain situations. For example:

Maybe you can't force a back-take from mount (and other positions), but what if more opportunistic transitions were introduced. If a player is mounted and trying to punch up, then a very good grappler should be able to catch the arm with the chance to take the back. Similar scenarios can exist from side control -- where maybe someone spamming fakes has now provided an opportunity for a back-take (as long as the movement is realistic).

I like the idea!

Now, if only I can get a take down...

[DaisukEasy]

Quote: Originally Posted by sdpdude9

We need an option to take our opponents back when on top. Currently the only way to do it is for the opponent to give up their back when mounted or from a sprawl position. I think the dominate fighter should have a better option to do this. Perhaps from mount or high level bjj guys can from half guard. Even reversal from a transition would be better. I just want to be able to fight like Maia and take backs, but when the opponent never goes to that position it's impossible. Its easier from the bottom to take backs which is just weird.

You can't force backmount on someone that's lying on their back. You can only catch them as they try to roll out or if they willingly turtle up.

But yeah, as someone tries to transition to halfguard from mount you should have a reversal transition to take their back.

[Solid_Altair]

I'm OK with having to force them to give their back some how, which includes conceding sprawl or BSC. However, I would like the RNCs from back mount and back flat to be stronger than their are now.

I don't think the problem is getting back mount. I think the issue is that it's not dangerous enough for submissions.

[FCB x Finlay]

A possible method is its a reversal to a getup from half guard and sidecontrol. So instead of blocking it they scramble to the back.

[Ksearyback]

Quote: Originally Posted by FCB x Finlay

A possible method is its a reversal to a getup from half guard and sidecontrol. So instead of blocking it they scramble to the back.

Agree.

Particularly when the someone in bottom side control turns away from the opponent (when going for sprawl). Side control escapes - when turning your back to the opponent - is a cardinal sin unless you really know what you're doing. This is a common way for the back to be taken. Would be nice to see an option added in which balance is struck between escaping from side control --> half guard (the safer move in grappling terms) vs a higher risk/reward move like escaping away (mess up and you expose the back).

Comes down to more scenarios added to the grappling transition tree.

[Solid_Altair]

Quote: Originally Posted by FCB x Finlay

A possible method is its a reversal to a getup from half guard and sidecontrol. So instead of blocking it they scramble to the back.

But would such a reversal be approriate from the get up from HG that we currently have in the game?

Quote: Originally Posted by Ksearyback

Agree. Particularly when the someone in bottom side control turns away from the opponent (when going for sprawl). Side control escapes - when turning your back to the opponent - is a cardinal sin unless you really know what you're doing. This is a common way for the back to be taken. Would be nice to see an option added in which balance is struck between escaping from side control --> half guard (the safer move in grappling terms) vs a higher risk/reward move like escaping away (mess up and you expose the back). Comes down to more scenarios added to the grappling transition tree.

I think this logic is already present in the game. It's generally easier to get up from sprawl, than from HG, but you also risk having the opponnet going to BSC and Back Mount.