Reasonable crucifix fix

[OPSPunk]

I love the ground and even I think the crucifix is OP. It’s OP because side control is relatively easy to achieve and crucifix is only one position away. Crucifix should be damn near a death sentence, just harder to obtain. To me the solution is an easy and realistic one.

No crucifix from side control. Only from side saddle. It gives the defender another position buffer before the death sentence

Another interesting option would be to use the submission system to achieve that spot

[xtremeba1000]

Quote: Originally Posted by OPSPunk

I love the ground and even I think the crucifix is OP. It’s OP because side control is relatively easy to achieve and crucifix is only one position away. Crucifix should be damn near a death sentence, just harder to obtain. To me the solution is an easy and realistic one. No crucifix from side control. Only from side saddle. It gives the defender another position buffer before the death sentence Another interesting option would be to use the submission system to achieve that spot

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS, I fight alot of guys who just go for high takedowns to side control and try for crucifix over and over again. if they are good you are probably gonna lose if they get the position even once.

[FriendlyJudoka]

This sounds like a definite improvement to me.

[xtremeba1000]

Kind of stupid how you have to go to side saddle to get out but you can go straight to crucifix skipping past side saddle. In real life you have to go to side saddle first to trap the arm with your legs.

[Solid_Altair]

It would also mean you'd be able to get to crucifix again, because the escapes from it go to SS. I think this could make it even more powerful than now.

[OPSPunk]

Quote: Originally Posted by Solid_Altair

It would also mean you'd be able to get to crucifix again, because the escapes from it go to SS. I think this could make it even more powerful than now.

That’s fine. Irl crucifix is the worst position. Worse than mount. If you get in it should be tough to get out. It should really mean your a$$. I don’t want them limiting the dmg or increasing the ability to escape. It just needs to be harder to get there.

The only problem is that you need another position to transfer to from side saddle. Not sure there is a good one. Maybe back side control, mount. Maybe make the submissions from there more deadly

[Ksearyback]

Quote: Originally Posted by OPSPunk

That’s fine. Irl crucifix is the worst position. Worse than mount. If you get in it should be tough to get out. It should really mean your a$$. I don’t want them limiting the dmg or increasing the ability to escape. It just needs to be harder to get there. The only problem is that you need another position to transfer to from side saddle. Not sure there is a good one. Maybe back side control, mount. Maybe make the submissions from there more deadly

The linear nature of grappling in this game has screwed up people's perception of "in real life" arguments.

The first point is interesting, and probably a good idea for the game. That being, make it more difficult to obtain the crucifix position in the first place.

In reality, getting there isn't really a case simply going through positions until reaching side saddle. The side saddle allows for more control, but limits options for the top player. I'd also argue side control is better for getting to crucifix, but not the point of this discussion. More important to this point of making it a more difficult position to attain, there could also be an element of needing help from the bottom fighter in order to get there with more ease (a bad escape attempt, or if there were more options for defense from the bottom it would offer more options).

In the meantime, I think it would make sense to have wider variance in how statistics like ratings, jiu-jitsu and/or wrestling level play into this. A good grappler is unlikely to give up that arm (and they sure as hell know from side saddle). On the flip side, there should be wider dispersion between fighters skills that determine the ease of getting the position - and, again, a wider gap in ability to hold the position.

All that aside...
I think Solid nailed it, as far as the reason for the current mechanics. Makes sense that the developers simply had to find ways to create artificial barriers created by the linear grappling engine. I assume that, because crucifix is so strong in this game (and so damn easy to attain), they forced the circuit of: Side Control -> Crucifix -> Side Saddle... to allow more opportunities to block being put back in the position after an escape.

[FriendlyJudoka]

Quote: Originally Posted by Solid_Altair

It would also mean you'd be able to get to crucifix again, because the escapes from it go to SS. I think this could make it even more powerful than now.

Well then they could also change the escape from crucifix so that it goes back to side control. BAM problem solved.