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Counter Punch · 07-01-2018, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GameplayDevUFC


	No one is skewing the narrative. At least I'm not. I'm simply pointing out that the argument that "everyone is asking for this" is not a self evident truth. I demonstrated to you that you are looking at a fraction of a percent of the people who might have an opinion on this. So no one here is in a position to proclaim what the majority wants. They can speak to what they want, absolutely. Also, remember that we source data from a lot more places than online forums and twitter. We're a mutli billion dollar company. You don't think we do market research and have analytics that show us exactly how many people own the game, play it, how frequently, how many stop playing, for how long and why?

Sadly I spent over $500 on ultimate team in UFC 2. I was addicted as it was such a rewarding gaming experience. I probably foight between 7-8 thousand fights in UT alone.

I haven’t played the mode for more than an hour in UFC 3 and haven’t spent 1 cent on the mode, because IMO its awful now. I haven’t gotten any type of survey whatsoever for UFC 3 and I got a bunch for UFC 2. Does that seem odd to anyone else?

Has anyone here gotten a survey about UFC 3?

AeroZeppelin27 · 07-01-2018, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Counter Punch


	Sadly I spent over $500 on ultimate team in UFC 2. I was addicted as it was such a rewarding gaming experience. I probably foight between 7-8 thousand fights in UT alone. I haven’t played the mode for more than an hour in UFC 3 and haven’t spent 1 cent on the mode, because IMO its awful now. I haven’t gotten any type of survey whatsoever for UFC 3 and I got a bunch for UFC 2. Does that seem odd to anyone else? Has anyone here gotten a survey about UFC 3?

Yep. I got about 4 towards the end of UFC 2's life cycle asking what I liked and disliked about the series.

However, it was vague as s*** with mostly black and white answers "I find the gameplay realistic" or "the gameplay is too unrealistic"
"The graphics are good"
"The graphics are bad" stuff like that.
There were a couple of specific questions but most were veeerry broad and easy to misinterpret. From memory.

You couldn't distinguish between say, the ground feeling good and the clinch feeling bad (random example) it was a blanket "all good" or "it stinks"

I answered as honestly as I could but it wasn't easy to actually say what you wanted to say at all and you couldn't add any comments or suggestions.

Edit: it was the same survey, it just popped up like 4 times when I jumped on UFC 2.

AydinDubstep · 07-01-2018, 04:38 AM

Ramblings:

Spoiler

I wonder if a casual (like one of my friends who come round to play from time to time but really don't have much ability in terms of controls) might look at the Mayweather - Mcgregor fight and try to deploy a similar strategy here.

Being a casual, they probably won't be able to use the lunges all that well and head movement would be a disaster too so they'd rely more on block as it's the safest option and the most stamina efficient outside of just footwork with no lunges.

Over a 5 round fight vs Mcgregor they might spend 2 rounds blocking, and do relatively well at that, with a few counters here and there, then decide in rounds 3 - 5 they are going to fight back and be at a stamina advantage as Mcgregor would have given his best work by then.

A sound strategy right?

Thing is, shots on the block and shots that land on the head or body don't really affect the stamina of the attacker even though IRL they would take off from the gas tank especially if shots are landing with venom as they exert
significant anaerobic effort.

If we had light vs strong attacks, then it would make sense if a guy went light the whole time, or mostly light attacks, and didn't lose much stamina, but these are fight ending shots that are being thrown.

Naturally the patient defender is going to think it's unfair that he isn't at a stamina advantage at RD3 as he's survived that long.

The trade off he'd expect is:
Fighter A takes more damage but has more stamina in RD 3-5
Fighter B loses more stamina but inflicts a lot more damage in RD 1-2

What he actually gets:
Fighter A takes more damage and has similar stamina in RD 3

(This is aimed vs the AI, who are very good at conserving stamina if you can't make them whiff and punish consistently with body shots.)

What would solve this pickle is block and head connects have a higher stamina penalty closer to that of whiff. Light strikes could be added to probe the opponent's defense, with similar stamina penalties (whiff or connect) to current heavy strikes, but no stopping power in light strikes. This would allow you to stay active vs a highly defensive fighter without tanking your gas systems but make heavier strikes count more so you don't just spam them out at the opponent's block or head.

On top of that, make the bottom level of stamina much harder to reach. Say a guy throws a combo and another one shortly after, it should eat away more at his long term stamina than his short term. Like the stamina bar itself should be longer, like FNC's. It's a bit forced to be temporarily gassed after one long combo or two consecutive ones. That might balance things out a bit for the pressure style fighters as it gives them more time to work in the short term, but less overall. -as you guys are saying that people struggle as it is with stamina ---------------

If block & head connect stamina was closer to whiff, it might be better. Super short term stamina bar (the actual bit that rapidly goes from 100 to 0 when you throw combinations and fluctuates constantly) shouldn't empty so quickly, however it should affect the long term stamina bar more if you keep throwing long combos, regardless of connect or not.

Add light strikes (with less stamina tax) to certain strikes to allow people to probe offense / defense and stay active if the other guy is keen to hug block.

Lessen stamina tax on feints especially & head movement slightly.

The result would be pressure fighters get to work more in the short term, for longer bursts too, BUT lose out in the long term, regardless of if they connect or not. They will benefit in the long term, only if their work was damaging and intelligent.

Then throw in the feint breaker mechanic to counter block hugging:

Successful feint break.

Player A is hugging block.
Player B throws a jab feint into a lead hook.
Player A is still hugging block.
Player B connects lead hook.

Unsuccessful feint break.
Player A is hugging block.
Player B throws a jab feints in to a lead hook.
Player A quickly pumps block.
Player B's lead hook hits the guard.

Not sure if that would work with the mechanics of the game but it is another option for breaking the guard which is actually used IRL. This could counter balance the proposed changes in stamina taxes above. ((quick edit: same feint breaks should not break the guard if used successively e.g. jab feint, lead hook... 10 seconds later... jab feint, lead hook. I mean maybe that's up to the player to defend it better or the game could force it to be less effective, meaning players would have to vary their feints.))

Then throw in pump block too maybe, where a well timed block press negates slightly more damage and takes slightly less block breakdown. Basically the pump block would move the defenders arms to wherever the current strike is coming from, allowing slightly more defense but opening up the other side (only for quick strikes, the slowest being a hook) if the attacker decides to feint and switch. This probably could have a thread of its own tbh!

TheShizNo1 · 07-01-2018, 09:15 AM

The entitlement is strong in this one.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Operation Sports mobile app

1212headkick · 07-01-2018, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheShizNo1


	The entitlement is strong in this one. Sent from my SM-G950U using Operation Sports mobile app

its not entitlement. its realism. it takes more energy to miss than to land. i dont think its right to squelch or disregard those who know what theyre talking about. fn had a great system. where did it go? have you ever trained any martial arts??

TheShizNo1 · 07-01-2018, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1212headkick


	its not entitlement. its realism. it takes more energy to miss than to land. i dont think its right to squelch or disregard those who know what theyre talking about. fn had a great system. where did it go? have you ever trained any martial arts??

Wasn't even referring to anything you posted.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Operation Sports mobile app

reallyGPDusrsbro · 07-01-2018, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GameplayDevUFC


	No one is skewing the narrative. At least I'm not. I'm simply pointing out that the argument that "everyone is asking for this" is not a self evident truth. I demonstrated to you that you are looking at a fraction of a percent of the people who might have an opinion on this. So no one here is in a position to proclaim what the majority wants. They can speak to what they want, absolutely. Also, remember that we source data from a lot more places than online forums and twitter. We're a mutli billion dollar company. You don't think we do market research and have analytics that show us exactly how many people own the game, play it, how frequently, how many stop playing, for how long and why?

and here is why anybody who has faith in GPD is delusional.

GPD cites EA being a "multi billion dollar company" as a reason why they have analytics. There are MULTIPLE GLARING issues with this, but idiots will still lap it up.

For one thing, very few of EA's resources go into this game, and its blatantly obvious. Issues that were revealed in BETA are just now getting fixed (and some still haven't).

But, more importantly, he reveals something throughout this thread; that he cares about what's popular, not what's high quality. I don't care if the average ea sports buying buffoon wants an arcade experience. I want A MIXED MARTIAL ARTS GAME. Mixed Martial arts does not feature people throwing 150+ significant strikes per round. It simply doesn't. It does not feature people having infinite gas tanks as long as their body isn't hit with a few uppercuts. IT SIMPLY DOES NOT MAKE SENSE THE WAY THE GAME WORKS. Why can a conor mcgregor throw 300 strikes and enter round 3 with 90% of his stamina? The answer is because the developers KNOW that their consumers are IDIOTS.

GPD always talks with this air of condescension and superiority, and then quickly retreats when criticized and only enters threads where he thinks he can have a nice "gotcha" moment.

This isn't an attack on him, it's only stating the facts (I'm sure the mods will end up deleting this post anyways because you're charlatans who only allow an echo chamber).

The fact of the matter is, GPD never argues from a QUALITY standpoint when he discusses stamina and these other "features" of the game, because he knows that anybody that knows MMA knows that this game is a joke from a realism standpoint.

Throw 150 strikes? YOUR STAMINA IS UNAFFECTED.

Miss a takedown? there goes 5% of your MAX stamina.

aholbert32 · 07-01-2018, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1stChrisso


	I think you're a little too naive on this topic. You always come up claims like "It's like that ..." "The devs told me that ..." but you actually have no evidence by yourself. Do not trust statistics that you did not fake yourself. Big part of the whole stamina issue is the future of gaming in general. And it's clear that they want a competitive game to have a foot in the door of this growing market. Doesn't change my opinion about the stamina system. It's dumb and has to go. Btw EA UFC is not Rainbow Six Siege, Madden, Fifa, Counterstrike, Overwatch etc. The amount of players in EA UFC is a joke in comparison. They will never grow towards those titles. So the approach to have an overly competitive kick boxing game is false. For me the one and only evidence would be to open two modes in ranked and/or quick match. And actually show us how many people play in which mode. Not the overall online statistic on top of the screen we have know. If the majority of people would choose the arcade stamina system we have now I would never ever argue against that again.

Ok this is dumb.

You have no information or statistics on who plays this game or what people who play this game want. None.

I have no information or statistics on who plays this game or what people who play this game want. None

The devs have direct access and information or statistics on who plays this game or what people who play this game want.

So I'm supposed to not believe the people who actually have access to the data? Should I believe you even though you have NO data to support your argument?

If you argument is you dislike the stamina system, cool. I'm with you. I think it relies too much on body work and whiffs and not enough on output. If your argument is that the devs are lying and casual and hardcore comp players wont mind a more sim stamina feature, where is your data to support that? Where is your proof that you have seen the data that supports this.

They also have no reason to lie about this when it comes to stamina. From what I've seen, Geoff could make changes to stamina in a tuner update. Worse case scenario, a patch. It would be some work but I doubt it would be extremely time consuming.

Whats funny to me is people here rarely ask "why?" Why would they be so hesitant to change the stamina system if the majority of gamers would either like the change or not care at all? Why would the devs lie about the data?

I think we can all agree that the devs are hardworking. I think we can agree that with most of the complaints about this game, they have been willing to attempt fixes or even change mechanics to make people happy. So why would they refuse to make this change?

07-01-2018, 04:38 AM	#51
AydinDubstep MVP OVR: 0 Join Date: Nov 2015	Re: What is so hard about making a good stamina system? Ramblings: Spoiler I wonder if a casual (like one of my friends who come round to play from time to time but really don't have much ability in terms of controls) might look at the Mayweather - Mcgregor fight and try to deploy a similar strategy here. Being a casual, they probably won't be able to use the lunges all that well and head movement would be a disaster too so they'd rely more on block as it's the safest option and the most stamina efficient outside of just footwork with no lunges. Over a 5 round fight vs Mcgregor they might spend 2 rounds blocking, and do relatively well at that, with a few counters here and there, then decide in rounds 3 - 5 they are going to fight back and be at a stamina advantage as Mcgregor would have given his best work by then. A sound strategy right? Thing is, shots on the block and shots that land on the head or body don't really affect the stamina of the attacker even though IRL they would take off from the gas tank especially if shots are landing with venom as they exert significant anaerobic effort. If we had light vs strong attacks, then it would make sense if a guy went light the whole time, or mostly light attacks, and didn't lose much stamina, but these are fight ending shots that are being thrown. Naturally the patient defender is going to think it's unfair that he isn't at a stamina advantage at RD3 as he's survived that long. The trade off he'd expect is: Fighter A takes more damage but has more stamina in RD 3-5 Fighter B loses more stamina but inflicts a lot more damage in RD 1-2 What he actually gets: Fighter A takes more damage and has similar stamina in RD 3 (This is aimed vs the AI, who are very good at conserving stamina if you can't make them whiff and punish consistently with body shots.) What would solve this pickle is block and head connects have a higher stamina penalty closer to that of whiff. Light strikes could be added to probe the opponent's defense, with similar stamina penalties (whiff or connect) to current heavy strikes, but no stopping power in light strikes. This would allow you to stay active vs a highly defensive fighter without tanking your gas systems but make heavier strikes count more so you don't just spam them out at the opponent's block or head. On top of that, make the bottom level of stamina much harder to reach. Say a guy throws a combo and another one shortly after, it should eat away more at his long term stamina than his short term. Like the stamina bar itself should be longer, like FNC's. It's a bit forced to be temporarily gassed after one long combo or two consecutive ones. That might balance things out a bit for the pressure style fighters as it gives them more time to work in the short term, but less overall. -as you guys are saying that people struggle as it is with stamina --------------- If block & head connect stamina was closer to whiff, it might be better. Super short term stamina bar (the actual bit that rapidly goes from 100 to 0 when you throw combinations and fluctuates constantly) shouldn't empty so quickly, however it should affect the long term stamina bar more if you keep throwing long combos, regardless of connect or not. Add light strikes (with less stamina tax) to certain strikes to allow people to probe offense / defense and stay active if the other guy is keen to hug block. Lessen stamina tax on feints especially & head movement slightly. The result would be pressure fighters get to work more in the short term, for longer bursts too, BUT lose out in the long term, regardless of if they connect or not. They will benefit in the long term, only if their work was damaging and intelligent. Then throw in the feint breaker mechanic to counter block hugging: Successful feint break. Player A is hugging block. Player B throws a jab feint into a lead hook. Player A is still hugging block. Player B connects lead hook. Unsuccessful feint break. Player A is hugging block. Player B throws a jab feints in to a lead hook. Player A quickly pumps block. Player B's lead hook hits the guard. Not sure if that would work with the mechanics of the game but it is another option for breaking the guard which is actually used IRL. This could counter balance the proposed changes in stamina taxes above. ((quick edit: same feint breaks should not break the guard if used successively e.g. jab feint, lead hook... 10 seconds later... jab feint, lead hook. I mean maybe that's up to the player to defend it better or the game could force it to be less effective, meaning players would have to vary their feints.)) Then throw in pump block too maybe, where a well timed block press negates slightly more damage and takes slightly less block breakdown. Basically the pump block would move the defenders arms to wherever the current strike is coming from, allowing slightly more defense but opening up the other side (only for quick strikes, the slowest being a hook) if the attacker decides to feint and switch. This probably could have a thread of its own tbh! johnmangala likes this. Last edited by AydinDubstep; 07-01-2018 at 04:41 AM.

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What is so hard about making a good stamina system?