Is this a better example of pressure fighting?

[DaisukEasy]

Quote: Originally Posted by FCB x Finlay

Reslonding to everythimg bolded. 1. If you rush wonderboy yourr getting a straight counter. Which on this current build isnt strong or consitant enough. Does 20 damage as a counter rn. http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/fcb-x-finlay-x/video/55791999

It still works. And you have other options.

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2. Yes bondaries can be enforeced in many ways, for example by reach and footwork establish ranges where you can hit them without being hit yourself.

Which is possible. But not if you never jab and preemptively lunge all over the place.

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4. The pressure fighter tries to dictate the pace i think you mean. Through footwork, movement and handfighting a successful outside fighter dictates when exchanges happen etc.

Yes, and that's the same in this game. But like in real life, it's not easy to do. Bum rushing someone is a lot easier than keeping someone at a distance (that's why Tae kwon do sucks as a standalone martial art).

Getting overwhelmed happens in real life too. Look at RDA vs Colby Covington. The only reason you don't see everyone bum rush each other in real life is because it's exhausting.

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5. Yes and thats a problem, wonderboy doesnt need to avoid a punch to lunge. Thats a mechanic issue there.

It's not necessarily a strike, but it's always a forward motion to try and trap him on the cage. That's the opening he uses to pivot.

If his opponent is set on simply following him with parallel movement, he's not getting off the cage, but nothing will happen either. (Woodley vs Thompson was a good example of this)

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6. About being agaisnt the cage. Its a death trap and need to circle to the middle.

Of course you do. It's preferable to not get stuck on the cage at all. Ever. But once you're there, you can't panic and try some half assed escape. You need to actually think and pick a spot. If you move carelessly you'll get KO'd, eat a billion bodyshots for no reason or waste your stamina a lot of stamina throwing counter shots and lunging too early.

[Phillyboi207]

Quote: Originally Posted by DaisukEasy

Yes, and that's the same in this game. But like in real life, it's not easy to do. Bum rushing someone is a lot easier than keeping someone at a distance (that's why Tae kwon do sucks as a standalone martial art). Getting overwhelmed happens in real life too. Look at RDA vs Colby Covington. The only reason you don't see everyone bum rush each other in real life is because it’s exhausting

Agree on the first part. Completely disagree on the second. The main reason is footwork, to maintain distance you need an elite level of footwork and balance plus an elite understanding of distance management. Most fighters are amazing at coming forward but dont handle pressure as well. RDA is an example of that.

I dunno about you but sparring with someone who is on another level in terms of footwork really opens your eyes to how much footwork matters.

Quote: Originally Posted by DaisukEasy

The pressure fighter dictates the pace, same thing in real life. All you can do is make them hesitate or knock them out for being dumb.

Also not true. It just depends which fighter is more skilled at mastering range / control. Cruz, Machida, Wonderboy, Frankie have all dictacted the pace of their fights plenty of times.

We just watch Taveres get destroyed while Israel controlled the tempo. Zabit won his last fight doing the same while his opponent pushed forward.

[FCB x Finlay]

Quote: Originally Posted by DaisukEasy

It still works. And you have other options. Which is possible. But not if you never jab and preemptively lunge all over the place. Yes, and that's the same in this game. But like in real life, it's not easy to do. Bum rushing someone is a lot easier than keeping someone at a distance (that's why Tae kwon do sucks as a standalone martial art). Getting overwhelmed happens in real life too. Look at RDA vs Colby Covington. The only reason you don't see everyone bum rush each other in real life is because it's exhausting. It's not necessarily a strike, but it's always a forward motion to try and trap him on the cage. That's the opening he uses to pivot. If his opponent is set on simply following him with parallel movement, he's not getting off the cage, but nothing will happen either. (Woodley vs Thompson was a good example of this) Of course you do. It's preferable to not get stuck on the cage at all. Ever. But once you're there, you can't panic and try some half assed escape. You need to actually think and pick a spot. If you move carelessly you'll get KO'd, eat a billion bodyshots for no reason or waste your stamina a lot of stamina throwing counter shots and lunging too early.

1. You mean moving? Thats all lungeing is.
2. What? Twd is a good single martial art, main problem is against muay thai. https://youtu.be/Lpl_7w8-jTE example here, american kickboxing is mainly twd based vs muay thai. Problem was leg kicks.
3. Yes its exhausting, guess what its not in game.
4. What? The oppenent doesnt need to move to lunge, masivadal vs him for example, dropped him of freezing masidal.

[DaisukEasy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phillyboi207

Agree on the first part. Completely disagree on the second. The main reason is footwork, to maintain distance you need an elite level of footwork and balance plus an elite understanding of distance management. Most fighters are amazing at coming forward but dont handle pressure as well. RDA is an example of that.

Of course unicorn level footwork stops pressure too. But that's literally a hand full of fighters. The average UFC fighter does not have the footwork to avoid getting rushed in that way, yet it doesn't happen.

Cause the flip side is that most fighters don't have the gast tank to keep that kind of relentless pressure up for the entire duration of the fight. And it's kind of risky. You'll likely end up in a clinch and that's if you don't run into fists and end up like Werdum and Aldo.

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I dunno about you but sparring with someone who is on another level in terms of footwork really opens your eyes to how much footwork matters.

Of course footwork matters.

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Also not true. It just depends which fighter is more skilled at mastering range / control. Cruz, Machida, Wonderboy, Frankie have all dictacted the pace of their fights plenty of times.

Because their opponents are actually trying to think of a way to get in relatively safely. You know, rather than just pressing forward and taking a few punches to land a few (like Justin Gaethje, Lineker, etc).

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We just watch Taveres get destroyed while Israel controlled the tempo.

Again, Tavares isn't actually mindlessly pressing forward like the people in this game do.

Look at fights where people are mindlessly pressing forward and tell me they're not dictating the pace?

Rousey vs Holm
Leben vs Silva

They got smashed, yes. But they definitely dictated the pace.

You can't stop someone from pressing forward and swinging. All you can do is make them pay. Either they learn or they go out. It's the same with the people in this game.

[DaisukEasy]

Quote: Originally Posted by FCB x Finlay

1. You mean moving? Thats all lungeing is.

And that's where you're wrong. The lunges are pretty much only useful when you're actually avoiding a punch. Otherwise you're better off just walking.

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2. What? Twd is a good single martial art. The main problem is against muay thai. https://youtu.be/Lpl_7w8-jTE example here, american kickboxing is mainly twd based vs muay thai. Problem was leg kicks.

Leg kicks are definitely a problem, but boxing is a significantly bigger problem. You can't stop someone from walking out of kicking range and into punching range.

Joe Rogan talked about how he found that out the hard way once he started boxing.

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3. Yes its exhausting, guess what its not in game.

That's not true. With the latest patch it's actually quite noticeable that people slow down if they press too much. Not quite perfectly realistic yet, but it's definitely in.

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4. What? The oppenent doesnt need to move to lunge, masivadal vs him for example, dropped him of freezing masidal.

I don't understand what you're saying.

[FCB x Finlay]

Quote: Originally Posted by DaisukEasy

Of course unicorn level footwork stops pressure too. But that's literally a hand full of fighters. The average UFC fighter does not have the footwork to avoid getting rushed in that way, yet it doesn't happen. Cause the flip side is that most fighters don't have the gast tank to keep that kind of relentless pressure up for the entire duration of the fight. And it's kind of risky. You'll likely end up in a clinch and that's if you don't run into fists and end up like Werdum and Aldo. Of course footwork matters. Because their opponents are actually trying to think of a way to get in relatively safely. You know, rather than just pressing forward and taking a few punches to land a few (like Justin Gaethje, Lineker, etc). Again, Tavares isn't actually mindlessly pressing forward like the people in this game do. Look at fights where people are mindlessly pressing forward and tell me they're not dictating the pace? Rousey vs Holm Leben vs Silva They got smashed, yes. But they definitely dictated the pace. You can't stop someone from pressing forward and swinging. All you can do is make them pay. Either they learn or they go out. It's the same with the people in this game.

No, holm espectially dicated the pace, she chose when they encaged and when they didnt. Controlling the tempo is not as easy as who throws more, your forgetting the importance of when encagements happen, where the fight takes place etc.

[FCB x Finlay]

Quote: Originally Posted by DaisukEasy

And that's where you're wrong. The lunges are pretty much only useful when you're actually avoiding a punch. Otherwise you're better off just walking. Leg kicks are definitely a problem, but boxing is a significantly bigger problem. You can't stop someone from walking out of kicking range and into punching range. Joe Rogan talked about how he found that out the hard way once he started boxing. That's not true. With the latest patch it's actually quite noticeable that people slow down if they press too much. Not quite perfectly realistic yet, but it's definitely in. I don't understand what you're saying.

1. I will refer back to my previous statement where i said it was a broken mechanic. Lunges do not need to be used reactively. Plus we dont have a proper circling button, the r1+r2 retreat is only straight back plus has a massive stamina drain. Gustaffson and overreem both run to the centre to avoid engaging.

2. This point here is not worth arguing cause i think we will agree everywhere its just your pov is slightly different. All martial arts have weakness when stacked beside others but thats why mma is a thing. To call twd not a good single martial art or base is flawed.

3. Thats also not true at all. People can press as much as they want as footwork costs no stamina, its easier to press and is much better for stamina. People slow down due to output and body shots not pressure. Where as footworks costs lots of stamina is completly imbalanced.

4. Wonderboy dropped masvidal of a side lunging 1-2 whem masvidal was frozen via footwork, was resetting his stance to adjust to wonderboys footwork and was caught sleeping.

[Phillyboi207]

Holly definitely controlled the pace of the Ronda fight. Silva usually lets his opponents dictate the pace because he likes to counter.

If mindlessly rushing forward was all you needed to pressure most fighters you’d see it more often.

If you rush forward people will simply cut angles and get out of the way. Look at Diego Sanchez against BJ Penn. The reason guys come in smarter are due to gas tanks, risk of getting hit,fear of grappling AND the fact that coming straight forward will get you matadored against fighters with good footwork. Overeem against JDS is another fantastic example. JDS against Rothwell as well.

The best pressure fighters dont just rush forward like Leben or Ronda. They cut the cage while pressing like Cormier and Justin. They use strikes to limit your escape routes. Same way the guys with the great defensive footwork dont just back straight up.