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Buff Dan Hooker.

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Old 09-06-2018, 06:17 PM   #25
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Re: Buff Dan Hooker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RetractedMonkey
I don't know what you thought I was trying to say, but your explanation is exactly how I tried to word my perception of your opinion. I said you compare the stats of the fighter in question to others in the division (especially the top 10) and then you go and say that you ranked Burns comparatively to those in his division and used two top 10 fighters as your example.
I look at it as “is this fighter drastically worse/better than others in his weight class”.


Thats what I do. The only difference is I use their performances as one of the guidelines. Not just stats. Not just my opinion of the fighter. All of those things combined.

Thats how I determine if someone is better or worse than someone else in the division. When I talk about beating someone in the "top 10" thats just short hand for the forums. I look at Yancy Medieros' two KO's over Alex Olivieria and Erick Silva and those two finishes rank higher to me than Burns' KO's over Saggo and Moret.

Now I watched all of those fights live. I was impressed by Burns' power but I will disagree with anyone who thinks those KO's were over better competition than Medieros'. I have no idea if Medieros' comp was ranked at the time. I just have seen them fight and I know how tough they are. So if you ask me RIGHT NOW who should be rated higher in power based on their UFC fights, its Medieros.

So thats the thought process. Its not purely using stats (stats weigh more in my mind for things like TDD and accuracy) or where someone is ranked. Its a combination of a lot of things.
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Old 09-06-2018, 06:19 PM   #26
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Re: Buff Dan Hooker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aholbert32
Many of those low health and stamina ratings at launch were for online balance reasons. The reality is the devs arent going to allow me or Solid or anyone to go through and bump every low level fighter's stamina and health to average levels just because. Looking at the chart, that would probably be 50-70 fighters.

Now you may have noticed that over the past 4 mos, I've been suggesting boosts to fighters who were were wrongfully low. Anderson, Guida, Markos, Aubin-Mercier, Mendes, Carmouche, Wineland, Felder and Hooker are examples just within the last 2 mos. So piece by piece, we are trying to improve them.
Yeah it’s definitely getting better. Felder is another good example tho. Dude has taken serious damage from Barboza and Perry. Everything indicates his health stats should be higher than someone like Iaquinta (who got a boost for being jabbed to death by Khabib lol).

I’m just hoping if a guy proves himself against top 10 competition he’d see more of a boost. Leon Edwards beat Cerrone who is a monster in game. If you look at their current ratings Edwards doesnt really stand a chance.

Good discussion tho. It’s always cool to get more background in what criteria is used to determine ratings.
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Old 09-06-2018, 06:24 PM   #27
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Re: Buff Dan Hooker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aholbert32
I look at it as “is this fighter drastically worse/better than others in his weight class”.


Thats what I do. The only difference is I use their performances as one of the guidelines. Not just stats. Not just my opinion of the fighter. All of those things combined.

Thats how I determine if someone is better or worse than someone else in the division. When I talk about beating someone in the "top 10" thats just short hand for the forums. I look at Yancy Medieros' two KO's over Alex Olivieria and Erick Silva and those two finishes rank higher to me than Burns' KO's over Saggo and Moret.

Now I watched all of those fights live. I was impressed by Burns' power but I will disagree with anyone who thinks those KO's were over better competition than Medieros'. I have no idea if Medieros' comp was ranked at the time. I just have seen them fight and I know how tough they are. So if you ask me RIGHT NOW who should be rated higher in power based on their UFC fights, its Medieros.

So thats the thought process. Its not purely using stats (stats weigh more in my mind for things like TDD and accuracy) or where someone is ranked. Its a combination of a lot of things.
But, that quote highlighted isn't how you do the stats. The operative word is "drastically". I feel you have a more nitpick style (which is fine), whereas I am perfectly okay with making wide changes even if they aren't as close to accurate as humanly possible. For the sake of gameplay and in my view that the top 10 in any given division is not that much better than your average unranked UFC prospect.

I believe we've already come to the conclusion that we just have a difference of opinion in the way stats should be done. I GET why you do it the way you do. I just think the gameplay and replayability suffers with your way.
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Old 09-06-2018, 06:25 PM   #28
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Re: Buff Dan Hooker.

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Originally Posted by MysticJack541
Agreed, take Conor and Nate for example. Both fights were very competitive in the striking department, but the stats would suggest Conor is a league above Nate. Conor has some serious inflated stats. He has five different stats that are 95+ in the striking department which is absolutey insane. Maybe it's just me, but I don't really like fighters stats to exceed 95 in almost any category, to me it just feels a little super human and something you would see on a CAF.

Not to mention in competitive play it really limits options. If I run into a good Whittaker player, or Romero player with Kelvin Gastelum, i'm pretty much f*cksville. I would like to see the stats be a little closer between the top 10 of each division, and not have fighters stats being blown up into the high 90's or have them be really low like 84 and below unless they really deserve it.

For example I think Conors striking stats should be maxed out at 93, except for accuracy which I think should be 95, and switch stance which should be 89. Or Demian Maia having 95 sub offence.

I guess I would categorize these as "stand out" stats. Only a few people should get stand out stats whether they are low, or high, for example Conors accuracy, Maias sub offence, Overeems chin, Hunt or Ngannous power, Wonderboys footwork.
To end this ramble I guess all i'm saying is that most top 10 fighters should fall inbetween 88-93 in any given stat, and should only go above or below that window if really deserved and I feel like it should be pretty rare and would give those fighters a slight advantage, but not anything insane.

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I'd argue that most already do. Especially if they are in the top 5.
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Old 09-06-2018, 06:33 PM   #29
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Re: Buff Dan Hooker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RetractedMonkey
But, that quote highlighted isn't how you do the stats. The operative word is "drastically". I feel you have a more nitpick style (which is fine), whereas I am perfectly okay with making wide changes even if they aren't as close to accurate as humanly possible. For the sake of gameplay and in my view that the top 10 in any given division is not that much better than your average unranked UFC prospect.

I believe we've already come to the conclusion that we just have a difference of opinion in the way stats should be done. I GET why you do it the way you do. I just think the gameplay and replayability suffers with your way.
I understand your way and I just disagree with it completely. We come from different persepctives when it comes to this. I have similar arguments with Zombie and some of the other online GCs. I completely think that there is a huge difference in skill between Dustin Poirier and Jake Matthews and I think the game should show it.

My goal isnt to make more ranked players viable. You know I dont give a **** about that. If real life makes them viable then the stats should show that. If not than you either have to deal with that handicap or not use him. I also doubt that elite online ranked players would even use more fighters if we rated them your ways. Comp people always want to use the best when it comes down to it even if there isnt a huge difference between the best.

I always find it strange that this game is the only game where I see arguments like this. I dont see anyone playing NBA 2k saying that Steph Curry and Otto Porter should have ratings in the same just because they are both in the NBA. The stats and the tape show that Curry is significantly better so there is no room for debate. Same thing here.
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Old 09-07-2018, 03:01 PM   #30
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Re: Buff Dan Hooker.

Do you have a response about Dan Hooker's switch stance stat?
I think you may have missed my comment earlier.
Please watch the Hatsu Hioki fight and Yair Rodriquez fight and reassess Hooker's switch stance stat of 80, the lowest possible. When he switches just as much as Wonderboy does ( 99 switch stance) and has KO's from both stances
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Old 09-08-2018, 08:49 AM   #31
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Re: Buff Dan Hooker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aholbert32
I always find it strange that this game is the only game where I see arguments like this. I dont see anyone playing NBA 2k saying that Steph Curry and Otto Porter should have ratings in the same just because they are both in the NBA. The stats and the tape show that Curry is significantly better so there is no room for debate. Same thing here.
2K doesn't downplay JJ Reddick's shooting stats because he hasn't done it at the highest level (finals etc). We can still observe that he is very proficient at it even if it is against lesser teams.

You can easily inspect fighters' physical attributes (KO power, health and stamina) even if they are not facing the best fighters. Francis Ngannou has the highest power stat in the game even though he hasn't knocked out anyone who is known for their chins because it is obvious from watching that he can generate a lot of power. Stipe's resume of guys he has knocked out is much better but no one would argue Stipe should have higher power rating than Ngannou.

The game in general is pretty generous with the power stat for KO artists (Perry, Lewis, Lineker, Stephens etc). Yet for some reason cardio machines and extremely resilient guys do not get the same love.

I'd say if a fighter beats high levels guys (Your Medeiros example) then he should get more buffs across the board to reflect his technical skills but physical attributes like KO power should be given more generously even if it isn't a brutal KO against top 3 opponent.
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Old 09-08-2018, 11:07 AM   #32
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Re: Buff Dan Hooker.

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Originally Posted by tomitomitomi
2K doesn't downplay JJ Reddick's shooting stats because he hasn't done it at the highest level (finals etc). We can still observe that he is very proficient at it even if it is against lesser teams.

You can easily inspect fighters' physical attributes (KO power, health and stamina) even if they are not facing the best fighters. Francis Ngannou has the highest power stat in the game even though he hasn't knocked out anyone who is known for their chins because it is obvious from watching that he can generate a lot of power. Stipe's resume of guys he has knocked out is much better but no one would argue Stipe should have higher power rating than Ngannou.

The game in general is pretty generous with the power stat for KO artists (Perry, Lewis, Lineker, Stephens etc). Yet for some reason cardio machines and extremely resilient guys do not get the same love.

I'd say if a fighter beats high levels guys (Your Medeiros example) then he should get more buffs across the board to reflect his technical skills but physical attributes like KO power should be given more generously even if it isn't a brutal KO against top 3 opponent.
This is very true. Curry isnt given better physical attributes than someone like Dennis Smith JR just because Curry is arguably the best player in the world.

Yet in game Guida isnt allowed to have elite stamina just because he isnt that good of a fighter overall.

Knocking out higher tier competition doesnt make you more powerful because most guys arent higher tier due to physical attributes but instead it’s due to skill.

What makes lower guys easier to knock out is their inability to avoid big shots, not their inability to take em. In MMA anyone can get knocked out with the right strike. The best of the best know how to not get hit clean repeatedly. Outside of your freaks like Edgar, Alvarez, Bisping, Romero, Connor who should be given eite durability stats most should have average durability. Then guys with proven weak chins like Overeem, Struve, Vick(he’s def lookin a lil chinny) should have the lower ratings for their division. That should apply regardless of competition.
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