I really hope the Devs focus on grappling with the limited amount of patches we have

[MacGowan]

Quote: Originally Posted by Papadoc60

Idk I think this is a terrible way to look at it. Grappling is pretty well fleshed out and has depth to it, it's just not as entertaining to people. Grappling isn't entertaining to a lot of fans, much less gamers that probably aren't even real fight fans.

I agree and I disagree.
1.The game grappling has depth.

2.the "grappling is fine, people just don't like it" logic is a biased and faulty way of looking at it if you ask me. firstly, Khabib and DC are top 10 biggest UFC stars. People like IRL grappling if the stakes are high enough and the grappling is fast paced.

i think the grappling in this game LOOKS boring. Look at UD3, now I'm not saying it's a better game, etc. But look at how fast, fun and fluid it LOOKED. Just the fact that in UFC3 you can't even KD someone and follow them down to move into full mount and finish them (instead you stand punching in the air).
you can't move your head on the ground.
you can't fully protect yourself in a lot of positionsz
you can't choose your attacks in a lot of positions.
control scheme changes in different positions.

and worst of all: if both grapplers know what their doing you just lie there, waiting to deny. like you're both dead.

[Papadoc60]

Quote: Originally Posted by MacGowan

I agree and I disagree. 1.The game grappling has depth. 2.the "grappling is fine, people just don't like it" logic is a biased and faulty way of looking at it if you ask me. firstly, Khabib and DC are top 10 biggest UFC stars. People like IRL grappling if the stakes are high enough and the grappling is fast paced. i think the grappling in this game LOOKS boring. Look at UD3, now I'm not saying it's a better game, etc. But look at how fast, fun and fluid it LOOKED. Just the fact that in UFC3 you can't even KD someone and follow them down to move into full mount and finish them (instead you stand punching in the air). you can't move your head on the ground. you can't fully protect yourself in a lot of positionsz you can't choose your attacks in a lot of positions. control scheme changes in different positions. and worst of all: if both grapplers know what their doing you just lie there, waiting to deny. like you're both dead.

DC wasn't a big star until he KOed Stipe and was actually hated for a pretty long time. If you're trying to sell to me that fans really like grapplers that much, you have a better chance selling ice to an eskimo. I'm not saying it's perfect, I'm just saying it has depth to it and many people don't give it a chance. High level grappling matches aren't just lying and waiting, there's a lot of faking involved and reads being made. People think it's not as dynamic as it could be and they are right, but how on earth could you argue that this justifies maintaining a lack of balance in game mechanics?

[GameplayDevUFC]

Quote: Originally Posted by Papadoc60

DC wasn't a big star until he KOed Stipe and was actually hated for a pretty long time. If you're trying to sell to me that fans really like grapplers that much, you have a better chance selling ice to an eskimo. I'm not saying it's perfect, I'm just saying it has depth to it and many people don't give it a chance. High level grappling matches aren't just lying and waiting, there's a lot of faking involves and reads being made. People think it's not as dynamic as it could be and they are right, but how on earth could you argue that this justifies maintaining a lack of balance in game mechanics?

The truly high level grappling matches I have seen are ridiculously fast paced, so much so that I can barely follow what's going on. They usually look pretty good too.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Quote: Originally Posted by MacGowan

To me it's a little like watching a guitarist make a solo album. For every hour she puts into drums and vocals, she magically keeps ending up playing with those guitars.

I think a better analogy is that we're Axl Rose putting together Chinese Democracy.

We spent 3 years working on the drums and vocals while spending very little time on the guitar tracks. Then we spent the next 3 years working on the guitars.

In 4 more years we'll have the greatest album ever made.

[MacGowan]

Quote: Originally Posted by Papadoc60

DC wasn't a big star until he KOed Stipe and was actually hated for a pretty long time.

-KOed him from clinch, something they JUST introduced.
-you can be hated and be a big star at the same time.
-i noticed you didn't reply to me mentioning khabib.

Quote: Originally Posted by Papadoc60

High level grappling matches aren't just lying and waiting, there's a lot of faking involves and reads being made.

I know. I'm saying in game it LOOKS boring.

Quote: Originally Posted by Papadoc60

People think it's not as dynamic as it could be and they are right, but how on earth could you argue that this justifies maintaining a lack of balance in game mechanics?

-I'm not. I'm saying they need to scrap defending transition or change the controll scheme.
-add the other things i just said. (head movement, full defending)
-abandon the old sub system.
-make single collar clinch auto at near zero distance.
-clinch locomotion speed up..... SPEEEED UP.


But I'm not speaking from a ranked perspective. I'm saying new players don't understand and are turned off by the sub system, the grappling that seem to introduce a whole new set of rules. (oh the left joystick.... the one i have been using this whole time does NOTHING in grappling.... what?)
things that aren't even explained (like circumstantial? grappling transitions)

It has depth, it has potential.

[MacGowan]

Quote: Originally Posted by GameplayDevUFC

I think a better analogy is that we're Axl Rose putting together Chinese Democracy. We spent 3 years working on the drums and vocals while spending very little time on the guitar tracks. Then we spent the next 3 years working on the guitars. In 4 more years we'll have the greatest album ever made.

Look, I get it. But I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the general view is that the stand up is the strength of the game and the grappling is a weaker point. from reviews, here, etc.


Yet you guys keep putting out patches that are radically adding and changing stand up, but none that are radically changing or radically adding things to grappling.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Quote: Originally Posted by MacGowan

Look, I get it. But I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the general view is that the stand up is the strength of the game and the grappling is a weaker point. from reviews, here, etc. Yet you guys keep radically adding and changing stand up, and not radically changing and radically adding things to grappling.

The biggest problem with grappling is it requires a lot of animation support to make any meaningful changes.

Like adding cage seated as a full position for example, would be an extremely expensive thing to do in the context of post launch, and would add very little to the experience overall.

Contrast that with the active KD getup interactions (6 animations), the cage seated finish position (12 animations), ankle pick takedown (6 animations) all of which have a much bigger impact for a much more reasonable cost.

Even something seemingly simple like head movement on the ground is a massive undertaking because it has to be applied to all the ground positions, and there are a lot of them.

Don't expect any huge grappling additions until the next game.

Until then grappling changes will be relegated to tuning and balance changes only.

[WarMMA]

Quote: Originally Posted by MacGowan

Look, I get it. But I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the general view is that the stand up is the strength of the game and the grappling is a weaker point. from reviews, here, etc. Yet you guys keep putting out patches that are radically adding and changing stand up, but none that are radically changing or radically adding things to grappling.

Yh I mean they added to it, but grappling is still just lacklustre (best word I can find) compared to the standup. It definitely needs more added. More positions and interactions. They also need to steal stuff from UD3. Lets get stuff in there like the seated cage, butterfly guard, body triangle, pulling guard from clinch, driving td's, catching strikes into sub attempts frm bottom, ect. I mean I know they want to make the game different from UD3, but they can just put their own twist on things. UD3 had a lot of legit mma stuff that was possible in gameplay, that should be in this game too. It's a blueprint of sorts...use it devs.

EDIT: So UFC 4 it is?