Let’s Talk: Empty Slips

[Phillyboi207]

Quote: Originally Posted by SUGATA

> In short the best possible solution to solve swaying striking spam from my point of view: Mistimed Sway (empty): - will be slower for ex 30% = easier to check and counter - no evasive properties at all - get increased Vulnerability b/c of unbalance w/o unbalancing of the opponent off his whiff. and then Swaying strike from Empty Sway: - will be slower for ex 30% = easier to check and counter - less SP and Damage (b/c of slower speed with the same mass as Stationary strike), but NO SP 0 with damage so any strike can stop it as we have now. = more strikes can stop it, but not all , not weak strikes So we can EASIER stop and counter Empty SS to solve Sway spam but w/o unrealistic disbalance which we have now.

I agree with this for strikes loaded up to the same side, like in the gif.

Loading up on same side strikes should make it slower but more powerful. Opposite side shouldn't lose any speed.

[RomeroXVII]

Quote: Originally Posted by NextupNico

So if you move your head off then back to the center line your next loses it’s power irl gotcha Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

It's not a loss of power. Nobody loses power from empty slip strikes in game, the damage is the same. If I see somebody slip and then strike I'm not gonna be surprised by the strike, but if I get countered when I don't expect the strike it's gonna do much more damage. It's the strikes you don't see coming that hurt. That's what I assume the concept is based on. I think Martial worded it much better than I did though.

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[NextupNico]

Quote: Originally Posted by RomeroXVII

It's not a loss of power. Nobody loses power from empty slip strikes in game, the damage is the same. If I see somebody slip and then strike I'm not gonna be surprised by the strike, but if I get countered when I don't expect the strike it's gonna do much more damage. It's the strikes you don't see coming that hurt. That's what I assume the concept is based on. I think Martial worded it much better than I did though. Sent from my SM-G965U using Operation Sports mobile app

If I take a 2x4 and walk it directly into your sternum will that not push you back if I dip my head off at an angle then push you? I’ve been around for awhile I remember the outcry for stopping power to be consistent going into UFC 2 so this post confusing to me. If an empty slip causes you not to block,slip,evade,or strike is it really empty or did you not actively punish that head movement so why is the strike following it less effective? I don’t think it should do more damage, have more stopping power, or come out of the slip faster but I also don’t think it should be less effective because the opponent didn’t act on the open opportunity.


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[RomeroXVII]

Quote: Originally Posted by NextupNico

If I take a 2x4 and walk it directly into your sternum will that not push you back if I dip my head off at an angle then push you? I’ve been around for awhile I remember the outcry for stopping power to be consistent going into UFC 2 so this post confusing to me. If an empty slip causes you not to block,slip,evade,or strike is it really empty or did you not actively punish that head movement so why is the strike following it less effective? I don’t think it should do more damage, have more stopping power, or come out of the slip faster but I also don’t think it should be less effective because the opponent didn’t act on the open opportunity. Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Alright 2x4 serial killer I like that analogy.

The best example I can provide is with 'empty' slip strikes Mayweather vs Maidana . When Mayweather successfully slipped and counter struck, his strikes were much more effective. When he moved his head before and mistimed it, whether it be over anticipating a strike or trying to preemptively counter a strike or in the middle of a combination, he was punished by Maidana accordingly.



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[NextupNico]

Quote: Originally Posted by RomeroXVII

Alright 2x4 serial killer I like that analogy. The best example I can provide is with 'empty' slip strikes Mayweather vs Maidana . When Mayweather successfully slipped and counter struck, his strikes were much more effective. When he moved his head before and mistimed it, whether it be over anticipating a strike or trying to preemptively counter a strike or in the middle of a combination, he was punished by Maidana accordingly. Sent from my SM-G965U using Operation Sports mobile app

lol and I agree he was punished by Maidana not by some mechanic removing the probability that if he happen to luckily time a strike that landed on an approaching opponent that it won’t be able to intercept an incoming attack. I think it’s great that good community members are coming out with these creative ideas but to me it seems more like overcompensation. I think physics should be the guiding light here.


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[Phillyboi207]

Quote: Originally Posted by RomeroXVII

Alright 2x4 serial killer I like that analogy. The best example I can provide is with 'empty' slip strikes Mayweather vs Maidana . When Mayweather successfully slipped and counter struck, his strikes were much more effective. When he moved his head before and mistimed it, whether it be over anticipating a strike or trying to preemptively counter a strike or in the middle of a combination, he was punished by Maidana accordingly. Sent from my SM-G965U using Operation Sports mobile app

I don't think the question is whether empty slips are as effective as a counter strike.

It's the notion that the empty slip strike has less stopping power than the regular strike that's the issue.

[RomeroXVII]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phillyboi207

I don't think the question is whether empty slips are as effective as a counter strike. It's the notion that the empty slip strike has less stopping power than the regular strike that's the issue.

Ah that changes things. Thank you for wording it better. Hm.

Most likely the concept of taking yourself off balance to hit at an angle that wasn't presented to itself? I really wish I could post GIFs on here, because I know EXACTLY what to reference, but :c

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[Phillyboi207]

Quote: Originally Posted by RomeroXVII

Ah that changes things. Thank you for wording it better. Hm. Most likely the concept of taking yourself off balance to hit at an angle that wasn't presented to itself? I really wish I could post GIFs on here, because I know EXACTLY what to reference, but :c Sent from my SM-G965U using Operation Sports mobile app

I get that when it comes to major lunges since you are taking yourself off balance.

Minor lunges tho work just like the original gif.

If you sit on your hip of the same side strike it would have more force behind it but become more telegraphed or slower. It also takes more stamina since you’d be putting more behind it and should come with extra recovery.

I wouldnt mind that being added to the game. You’d then have another form of loading of the hip. The current one uses your momentum from loading the opposite hip to throw faster fwd moving strikes. Same side would be more powerful but slower. It’d also be a nice way to add a psuedo power modifier to punches.