Game Adjustments to deal with unrealistic pressure

[Counter Punch]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phillyboi207

Whiffing most certainly takes much more stamina than a landed/blocked strike. The concept is rooted in realism. The issue is this is a game and if blocked strikes took more stamina then the block itself would be OP

Why does this argument always play out exactly the same way every time?

Block is unrealistically strong, blocked strikes don’t consume enough stamina.


...is the solution not obvious?

Edit: does it really drain more stamina to whiff straight punches though?

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by Haz_____

You jump on 1 word to avoid the entire point being made.. Where did the idea that blocked strikes drain considerably less stamina even come from? Worded better now? Same exact message though. It doesn't matter if your strike is blocked, if your hitting gloves, if your hitting a bag, you're gonna get tired much faster than you realize. I said it already and I'll say it again Go punch a heavy bag for just 60 seconds. I guarentee you'll be gassed. Blocked strikes draining very little stamina makes very little sense in the context of reality.

Chill out with the attitude. You made a statement. It was wrong. You worded it wrong. It aint his fault because you worded it wrong.

Also simply punching a heavy bag for a minute doesnt "gas" you. At least it doesnt "gas" me and I've done it tons of times. I'm also old as ****. It drains stamina but so does movement, blocking and other activities related to striking.

Also if you guys want to motivate the devs to add "considerably more" stamina drain to blocked strikes, you should come with a more compelling argument than "the heavy bag" argument. You guys have tried to use this for months and it hasnt resulted in any traction.

I've heard people present the other side of this argument and it has nothing to do with realism. Its gameplay related. The argument is that a significant increase in stamina loss resulting from blocked strikes will result in people just turtling simply to drain stamina.

Let me make one thing clear.....THIS ISNT MY ARGUMENT. I dont have a horse in this race. If it stays the same, I'm fine. If it doesnt, cool.

The fact is that argument is one of the main reasons there hasnt been a significant change in this part of the game imo.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by Counter Punch

Why does this argument always play out exactly the same way every time? Block is unrealistically strong, blocked strikes don’t consume enough stamina. ...is the solution not obvious? Edit: does it really drain more stamina to whiff straight punches though?

The problem is you state that as a fact. There is a contingent of people who dont think thats the case (I'm not included).

[Phillyboi207]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

The problem is you state that as a fact. There is a contingent of people who dont think thats the case (I'm not included).

Well it comes down to what POV you’re arguing from. From a realism perspective I dont think anyone can argue againstthe current blocking system being too strong. Same with strikes against the block not taking enough stamina.

From a gameplay perspective it’s pretty balanced.

Quote: Originally Posted by Counter Punch

Why does this argument always play out exactly the same way every time? Block is unrealistically strong, blocked strikes don’t consume enough stamina. ...is the solution not obvious? Edit: does it really drain more stamina to whiff straight punches though?

I agree with you 100% but the other side provides a decent argument.

If you weaken block then casuals will be frustrated with not being able to defend especially when rocked.

And I would say all strikes take more stamina when whiffed assuming you’re “punching through” your target with proper technique. A pawing jab wouldnt but a stiff jab would.

We have footwork buffs and a huge whiff tax. I dont see how realism/outside fighting crowd can complain at this point. I was crying just as much as anyone at the start but the Devs have responded and imo the striking is in a good place

[Counter Punch]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

The problem is you state that as a fact. There is a contingent of people who dont think thats the case (I'm not included).

I think it’s a given that I’m voicing my personal opinion.

[MacGowan]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

Also simply punching a heavy bag for a minute doesnt "gas" you. At least it doesnt "gas" me and I've done it tons of times. I'm also old as ****.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

my lazy *** heavybag schedule was:
30 seconds - "on the bike"
30 seconds - movement, setting up punches.
30 seconds - "on the bike"
30 seconds - heavy punches
30 seconds - "on the bike"
30 seconds - Full out
small breather and repeat.
And I'm not in the UFC.

That being said, I always play with custom sliders 12+ on stamina. I could even go higher on the short term stamina, but with 12+ it can be pretty hard to get to 5th round without being gassed.

I like that you have to pull back after 3 shots, and that you take a chunk out of your long term stamina by throwing that spinning ****.

[OPSPunk]

Punching a heavy bag has no bearing on stamina drains in live competition. The simplest reason is because you never worry about a bag punching back.

A typical practice could last 2-3 hours and at the end of practice you will feel exhausted. A fight lasts for 15 to 25 minutes and you might feel equally as exhausted despite it being a fraction of the time. The reason is that there is a natural tension that exists in live competition. That tension makes you more alert and sharp. However it comes at a stamina tax with each thing you do.

Quick example: throw 3 strikes at a heavy bag, it will be nothing. Throw three strikes in a spar....it will take a bit more out of you because you are using mental energy be prepared for what might come after or during your combo. It won’t seem that much more intense than the heavy bag because usually there is a slight trade-off in excursion(unless u r trying to take your partners head off). Live competition exerts so much much more. There is the stress of the losing, stress of the bright lights, stress or alertness if what your opponent is doing has done and will do.

Side bar...this is why I think weed is a bit of a PED. Diaz boys have great endurance but the fact that they don’t care means they are more relaxed and can do things with less stamin tax

[Haz_____]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

Chill out with the attitude. You made a statement. It was wrong. You worded it wrong. It aint his fault because you worded it wrong. Also simply punching a heavy bag for a minute doesnt "gas" you. At least it doesnt "gas" me and I've done it tons of times. I'm also old as ****. It drains stamina but so does movement, blocking and other activities related to striking.

No. No, It wasn't wrong at all. It was completely accurate.


Counter Punch also already addressed this, but unsurprisingly you replied to every comment but this one...

Quote: Originally Posted by Counter Punch

It’s hyperbole. It has been argued many times on this forum that strikes that hit your block don’t drain enough stamina. I and some others have argued this since release. Nobody is actually claiming that you literally lose no stamina if your combo is blocked. The amount of stamina you lose relative to how much you should lose is basically negligible.

And yes. Go hit a heavy bag for a minute. Rest. Then Shadow box for a minute. You're going to be fatigued from both. Much much more than the average Joe who has never done it would think.

Throwing punches/strikes takes considerably more effort than most people think.

Quote: Originally Posted by MacGowan

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. my lazy *** heavybag schedule was: 30 seconds - "on the bike" 30 seconds - movement, setting up punches. 30 seconds - "on the bike" 30 seconds - heavy punches 30 seconds - "on the bike" 30 seconds - Full out small breather and repeat. And I'm not in the UFC.

I honestly don't believe that. I train BJJ every Sunday, I'm young, fit, athletic, and I know for a fact when I hit the bag I get tired fast. Yeah, you're still moving and throwing, but you get tired way faster than you would think. I have lots of video proof of me training and I can happily show it off. I'm not pulling this outa my ***. It's an objective fact that striking is far more tiring than the average person realizes, untill they get at it and do it.



Now to move on from that Heavy Bag example, which is just that, an example. A reference point. Aholbert says there has been no traction on this because 'the only argument we have presented is the heavy bag argument'. Well ok then, here's a thread I made months ago, at the release of UFC 3, with far more objective, unarguable data:

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...a-ufc-3-a.html

Quote: Originally Posted by Haz____

The stamina in this game is insanely unrealistic. I'm seeing people go completely crazy in round 1, just chasing me down down non stop, throwing a never ending stream of strikes. I've seen countless fights where in the first round alone, people are throwing 170+ strikes, and starting round 2 with near full stamina still. Now i'm sure i'm gonna get a handful of people jumping down my throat for saying that, but it's true, and hear me out. Now first off, can that type of striking be dealt with? Sure. of course. We have talked about in it many of the other threads. Duck a punch and counter. Slip and Counter. Use lunge back to create distance. Etc. But whether it can be dealt with is not the point. The point is, that it shouldn't even be possible in the first place. You shouldn't be able to throw 180 strikes, and still start round 2 just fine. http://fightnomics.com/category/blog...striking-pace/ According to this graph, which tracks all fights in the UFC starting from the very beginning.... The average number of strikes per min IN REAL LIFE, is only around 9 strikes. 9 strikes per minute.. In EA UFC 3, it's more like 30-40 strikes per minute. That's an incredibly huge difference. Now i'm totally OK with you being able to throw 180 strikes in a round. Go for it. But there needs to be consequences to putting that kind of work in. If you throw 180 strikes in round 1, you better be starting round 2 with a big ol' chunk out of your stamina. As it stands now, unless you're actively putting in body work ALSO, then the opponent isn't draining much stamina at all, despite the fact they are throwing an entire fights worth of strikes in 1 round. Again tho, this goes back to my original point; Whether it can be dealt with is not the point. The point is, that it shouldn't even be possible in the first place. Here's another interesting article which showes how Diaz actually broke the world record for most strikes in a fight when he fought Conor the 2nd time. https://www.sportsjoe.ie/mma/nate-di...mcgregor-92949 Diaz threw 435 strikes in that fight. That is the world record for strikes thrown in a fight.... Now in EA UFC 3, almost every single 5 round fight completely blows that out of the water. Shoot, almost every 3 round fight in EA UFC 3 blows that out of the water.. Conor only threw 322 strikes that fight. In 5 rounds he threw 322 strikes and was completely and totally gassed out. Why can Conor throw that many strikes in just 2 rounds in EA UFC 3, and be just fine? That is an issue. The stamina in this game is an issue. My suggestion, is that when you throw long enough strings of combinations to drain most, or all of your short term stamina, that needs to have a bigger effect on long term stamina drain. This would reward picking your shots, but put a tax on non stop pressure, while still allowing you to go completely crazy in a round if you really wanted. Which is far more realistic.

So IRL the average age strikes thrown per minute is only around 10-15 give or take. In the game it's multiple factors higher than that. You want to take away the Heavy Bag example as a reference, ok fine. Well here is objective data showing the games current stamina system in no way reflects anything even close to reality.

Now at the time I was talking about strike numbers around the 170 mark, and I have posted many pictures, and will happily post again showing that at the time that was the case. Now at this point some improvements have been made, and I can't argue that. But I still see my opponents throwing 130 strikes a round in almost every single online fight, which is doubl, almost triple what you see in real life. And that's not even taking into account faster rounds in game, which means the pace is even crazier than the numbers represent. I'm sorry, but that's not MMA. Thats arcade fighter territory. And I'm not into it at all.