Why A 2KSports Football Game Can Succeed In 2K6

[BigTim]

Quote: Originally Posted by blackceasar

I can take it that Tim is the only same person on this thread. As bas as it sounds and I hate it just as much as the next person, people here just refuse to let reality set it. Dreaming of VC taking the fight to EA with another football game. TT is NOT making a pro football game or any football game this year. QUOTE ME ON IT. And when we find out for sure that me and Tim are right can we start a "I told you so" thread? People act like people like me and Tim are happy about this. It sucks. But its just like Bush being president. It sucks but the reality is there is nothing I can do about it. I can sit all day long and come up with conspiracy theories on how they can dig up some dirt on him and kick him out of the White House, but the chances of that are HIGHLY UNLIKELY. You people sit up here and talk about how hard and talented the devs are at VC. Sure they are. They are the best sports game devs in the market IMO. BUT THEY DONT CALL ANY FREAKIN SHOTS!. They arent the ones with stock options, money invested into the company, they arent share holders, they arent sitting on the board of trustees making 1.2 million a year. They are the worker bees, and thats it. I hate the NFL deal EA struck. I hate what it's done. But there is nothing you or I can do about it. People can go get petitions all day long. The numbers dont lie. In the end the people who run EA and the people who run Take Two are concerned with one thing and one thing only. $$$$$$$. keep dreaming. Flame me all day for being "negative". Im not being negative..Im being realistic. Im living in the real world where I realize everything isnt always fair. Everyone isnt gonna do what you wish they would do. People just need to wake up and stop hitting the NFL2k6 snooze button.

what I cant wait for is when they announce that there will be no game, and all these fanboys cry out that T2 is gay and what not. You know that will happen.

And just for reference, Im a fan of both games.

[wwharton]

who keeps saying built for xbox? what are you talking about?

Odogg, there's less chance of Madden being a bad game than a TT baseball title. Not that I think TT's baseball game will be bad, I actually picked ESPN over MVP last year as I felt they were neck and neck with ESPN winning b/c of online (even though that actually was pretty bad) but considering that you won't have many returning Madden for a generic game. Even those of us that prefer VC's style can appreciate that Madden is a pretty damn good game AND has the NFL license.

People also forget that that 2 mil number was achieved by dropping the price and getting the game out well before madden. Many madden fans that tried the game out, liking it or not, will not buy the generic version no matter when it came out or what the price is. There was hope of people on the fence buying both b/c $20 is so cheap but now that hope has to be even bigger.

[jdros13]

I don't necessarily disagree with the entire message, but there are a couple of things that I disagree with here.

Quote: Originally Posted by BigTim

"This isnt Television, previous product does not influence possible purchases in the future. Maybe years ago, it would, but now in the days of the internet and a TV channel dedicated to gaming there is no bearing on the market. I bought ASB for a few years just because I thought it was better than anything else out there. Then I saw the previews in magazines for MVP2003 and the pitching meter greatness(something I had been telling my friends for years would make baseball more enjoyable). There was no video preview in Madden for MVP to get my salivating.

I politely disagree with you here. I'm not a kid, I'm 29 years old, and brand recognition is a huge factor in many purchases I make, and it is a huge factor in the purchases that many make. If you like a product previously made by a company, you are much more likely to gravitate to other products made by that company. I feel passionately about videogames, therefore I'm willing to do independent research to determine what games I would like to play. However, if I'm out to purchase something on a whim (which is how a majority of videogame purchases are made by people who don't hang out in these online forums), I am much more likely to choose something made by a company that I am familiar with. It appears the same happened to you whether you realize it or not. You bought the game that you thought was best, ASB...You then saw a game in a magazine that had a feature you thought might be cool. If that game had been made by a fringe company you weren't really familiar with, you might not have assumed it was well implemented. Since it was made by EA, a company that is, like it or not, a leader in the sports videogame industry, you gave it a shot. Frankly there are a lot of people that buy a lot of videogames that would never look in a videogame magazine. They just want a baseball game, they are familiar with Madden, and so they look to see what the EA offering is. That's just the way the world works.

Quote: Originally Posted by BigTim

"As has been said 100 times by other people, the population of the US are sheep. We want names, faces, the stadiums, to be able to feel we are in control of what we watch on TV. I love and adore MVP baseball, but I will not be interested in buying a generic MLB game from them.

I agree, the majority of gamers want to have control of their team. You said previously that we are not influenced by brand recognition, but admit here that you will only purchase a baseball game with the MLB brand, no matter how good the game might be. Brand recognition is very important according to marketing professionals linked here:"Branding is everything in sports today."

Quote: Originally Posted by BigTim

"Also, you have to realize these games are a franchise designed to suck people into getting the next version. How would a complete game force people into buying another game? If they charge 50 for it to be a series ender and no worries about making another one, the average fan will be put off by a generic premium priced game. If the devs charge 20, then they get shortchanged from a game they can no longer make money off of. If they charge an online fee, then people get pissed at them for being greedy. Its a no win situation for them.

This is absolutely true, and is a big reason that I think it is going to be hard for VC/TT to succeed in football. I really like the online leagues in NFL 2k5, and the expansion of that would be a big reason that I would consider a generic pro game. However, you are right, there is a dilemma. If they make the game too customizable and deep there is no reason to buy the update. EA Sports has made a fortune by releasing a new game with tweaks and updated rosters every year at a premium price point. They don't need to reinvent the game every year because it has been proven year after year that they can turn a huge profit with this strategy. To me this is the biggest hurdle for VC/TT -- if they make a great game that gets people involved so that they feel "ownership" of their little pixelated team, do they really expect that next year, with all new teams and rosters we will be willing to start all over again? I'm not sure if it would be cost effective.

Frankly, I think they would be better served putting out a football game in July -- "NCAA 2k6" where they would still be out there for every sport and year-round. I'm curious to find out what their plan "B" was if they lost the NFL license...guess we will find out around E3.

[utexas]

Once they come out with the game, ceaser and Tim will go into hiding! Trust me on that. Here is an obvious question, since you (Tim) prefer madden so much, why continue to post in this forum? I disliked madden very much this year so I don't go and post info over there just to get on the nerves of the loyal madden guys. To each his own. Unless you are willing to name names about who guaranteed you that T2 isn't releasing a game, chill.

[spankdatazz22]

[quote=BigTimESPN people fail to realize the flaws in its own game, and choose only to complain about Maddens gameplay. Whereas all Madden people do is sit back and play the game, maybe take some time to figure out some sliders(like me, I enjoy more INTs, so i jacked up the slider on both cpu/human), and enjoy it.[/QUOTE]

lol - that's ALL Madden people do? Please. I play Madden from time to time; I like Madden - but don't fool yourself. Just because you choose to limit what the game will easily allow you to do doesn't make it better. You need only to play a few people online to see the various strategies that are successful in the game - strategies that go completely against conventional football wisdom. No one's saying either game is a perfect representation of football. At least I wasn't.

I did make a little petty dig at Madden, but the fact is both games bring different things to the table. NFL2K is different enough to warrant being released, just as Madden brings enough to the table to warrant being released if it didn't have the NFL exclusive license. What do people crave in Madden's next iteration? Gang tackling, better OL/DL line play, no mario running, better CPU playcalling, better presentation, BnR that isn't holding at the LOS, etc. etc. etc. Things that are already available in the 2K series; you don't have to wait 1-2 years before that becomes a reality. Sure, lacking the player names, faces, and NFL logos is a huge blow - that is for NFL2K, because you never see players with their helmets off in Madden. Player faces aren't that big a deal in the game. And during the game, the stadiums for the most part seem interchangeable because presentation isn't that big a part of the game. It becomes an issue of gameplay. Ms. Pac Man is still a good game because of it's gameplay. Same w/Tetris. Granted, these are classic games. But games like Tecmo Bowl and even the original Madden were successful w/o the NFL license because they brought something to the table no other game at the time had.

A game doesn't have to sell in the millions to be profitable, anymore than a game has to retail for $50 to make a profit. This is something some of you have been Jedi mind-tricked into believing. Games retail for $50 simply because it's what the market will bear. The Shark Tales game retails for the same price as Halo 2.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by utexas

Once they come out with the game, ceaser and Tim will go into hiding! Trust me on that. Here is an obvious question, since you (Tim) prefer madden so much, why continue to post in this forum? I disliked madden very much this year so I don't go and post info over there just to get on the nerves of the loyal madden guys. To each his own. Unless you are willing to name names about who guaranteed you that T2 isn't releasing a game, chill.

This is hilarious. If you're actually reading posts by either of these two I don't see how you would think that either would go hiding from anything. I guess if they release a game I'll go into hiding too. I'm just waiting for someone to call me a maddenite.

[BigTim]

Quote: Originally Posted by utexas

Once they come out with the game, ceaser and Tim will go into hiding! Trust me on that. Here is an obvious question, since you (Tim) prefer madden so much, why continue to post in this forum? I disliked madden very much this year so I don't go and post info over there just to get on the nerves of the loyal madden guys. To each his own. Unless you are willing to name names about who guaranteed you that T2 isn't releasing a game, chill.

Im sorry, where did I say I prefer Madden over ESPN?

I said I play them both, and realize they are good for each other, and for their own seperate reasons.

and also, Im not one of those typical internet cowards, I admit when I am wrong, so you will see me saying something IF they do release a game.

[BigTim]

Tecmo Bowl had the NFLPA license though. If ESPN had that license, then I would not be saying they wouldnt release a game, but they dont.