hot d@mn!!! ESPN 2K4 has far better gameplay than 2K5. make rosters please!!!

[videobastard]

I played 2k4 recently and i have to agree with the thread starter. The game plays much better and is less stiff than 2k5. I can actually play with the safety or CB in this game. The punt returns and kickoffs are great. To bad they changed the good things that were in 2k4 with 2k5.

[thejackal25]

Once I learned to contain the cpu's running game, I know 2k4 caused far less frustration than 2k5. Passing was quite a bit easier for me and the cpu, and 2k4 didn't have the glaring franchise bugs in it...I really wish they rereleased 2k5 with a fixed draft, cuz the selection of only qbs, hbs, ots, and des, kinda kills the franchise mode. I did like the return game on 2k4, but it was a bit too easy to bring one to the house. It was possible to put up double digit return tds in a season. Any guy could become Desmond Howard or Dante Hall. The turning on a dime is unrealistic, but the momentum in 2k5 is a bit off...I hope a next gen 2k game will find a good medium in between these two games. I still like playing 2k5 more than 2k4 b/c it's more challenging. It got easy to slaughter opponent on legend difficulty on 2k4, especially if you have a good return man, a decent hb to dump it off to, and played as the cb on the primary wr...the controls were so tight u could pick it off almost every time.

Both of these games have strengths and weaknesses, so I probably wouldn't say one is better than the other, they're just different, and should both be played. I'd definitely welcome an editor for 2k4 though.

[wwharton]

one thing i'd have to raise an eyebrow too. for those that say the running game is better in 2k4, how much have you mastered the juke stick? are you just spinning every time b/c you're doing things too late and/or picking the same direction no matter where the defender is or have you really gotten it down?

[Rickster101]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

one thing i'd have to raise an eyebrow too. for those that say the running game is better in 2k4, how much have you mastered the juke stick? are you just spinning every time b/c you're doing things too late and/or picking the same direction no matter where the defender is or have you really gotten it down?

I'm not sure what the hype is all about really concerning the running game, by now most guys should know or upon further review realize that when it was all said and done according to the developers and game programers they said they fixed this also along with some DB play and in a sense IMO "Over Corrected" these areas and thus they appear in 2K5...the corrections in the "Running" game ala "Momentum" and that damn stick featuring another upgrade to iso and its tricky manuvers and a heighten "Awareness" to the games AI pretaining to what they would have considered "Better" DB play.

Well whatever they did it worked...a little too well but with the ability to use sliders and editing you could tweak the game out to tone down some of what they thought was a good thing.

I don't think they intentionally made the game tougher but I'd imagine added these gameplay upgrades because its what we ask for in the gameplay and they delivered now its a year or so later and guys are cryin' foul because the 2K5 isn't showing any love for the passing game and its DB play is snatching up everything that isn't up to its standard of "Blanket" gameplay but hey isn't that what you'd rather have a game and developers that actually went out and did something you can see and feel via the 2K5 game?

Unlike the good ole boys at EA when the VC crew says their gonna fix upgrade or improve something these guys despite whatever it is we see or experience "DO IT" they got out there listen to the fans and probably check fan input via "Wish" list and responded by delivering a "Blow" felt throughout the gaming community both on and off the net by droppin' the 2K5 game which is exactly what we asked for "Changes" you can see and feel and again unlike EAs Madden you don't have to wait years and years to see a change so I for one applaude the whole series becauce each game has its own unique and featured gameplay issues good and bad but 2K5 is the mark and has set standards that should be followed the just "Over" compensated in 2K5 but its still here and is a "Rock" and "Foundation" to build on ala 2K6 until its official return!!!




Holla Back y'all
Rickster101

[tpaterniti]

Let me say this, I have played 2K3, 2K4, and 3K5 in succession equally (about 200-250 games of each). I believe that 2K5 is by far the best. 2K4 has a "good" running game, but not necessarily a realistic one. In fact, it DOES need to be toned down, and that's why they did it in 2K5. 2K3 has the best (i.e. most enjoyable) running game if you like to find holes and run inside, and the intro to game graphic is very neat. Check it out. It is still a quality game. All of the stuff about realistic NFL numbers is a discussion of difficulty. When I first got 2K5, I could score about 21-35 pts on the computer on pro. Now I am consistently putting up 48-63 pts against quality opponents on a difficulty between all pro and legend. You have to have a realistic level of difficulty based on your personal skills or you will not be able to get realistic numbers. This is an issue of appropriate difficulty, not of game design. For all of you who complain about too many INTs, think about this. There have been probably 200,000 high school QBs across the USA in the last 15 years, about 5,000 college QBs, and about 350 NFL QBs. Of all of these, only 32 are good enough to start on Sunday, and of these 32, probably only 20 can put up decent numbers. This is about 0.01%. Consider everyone in America (320,000,000). Of all those, only 20 can be a good NFL QB. That's one person in every 16 million people. What this means is that a "realistic" NFL game would be impossibly difficult. Now, of course, you only need the mental abilities-you're not running around making the throws yourself, but there should be a lot of INTs because let's face it- your average Joe who never played football at all should not realistically be able to run an NFL offense with Pro Bowl numbers. So to complain that a game where you average 2 or 3 INTs is unrealistic is absurd.

Other 2K4 complaints:

Unrealistic Franchise mode. You can trade anyone for picks, the salaries are too simplistic, and essentially every team is an all star team because you have such a high salary cap compared to the players' salaries.

The run controls are pretty stiff compared to 2K5, and they break way too many tackles.

In the NFL, if you have a step on a defender, as a WR you are open. In 2K4, unless you are WIDE open, you will get hit and drop the ball. BTW, TO and Holt and Harrison should dominate. Has anyone turned on a TV lately...that's what they do in real life (when they're healthy).

Not enough defensive control. You can't match people up or change very much before the snap. When you play difficult opponents, it is absolutely essential to be able to assign people to different men. For example, the 3-4 Cover 12 D is great against the run. Pull the DBs down and all the way in, pull the LBs tight and pinch the D line. The one weakness of this defense is the swing pass. In 2K5, this is simple. Just assign a man to the RB. In 2K4, this D is a constant liability. Also, I have QBs run on me all the time (computer opponents) when the play breaks down. Again, turn the difficulty up and you will see. BTW if you want to see the nastiest defense ever, play the Patriots on legend difficulty. WOW!!

Not enough pre-snap offensive control. You can only audible certain people, and it is not as smooth or effective as it is in 2K5, where you can essentially make your own plays on the fly if you want.

There are probably other things, but as a die-hard fan for several years, 2K5 is MUCH better than 2K4.

[rudyjuly2]

Quote: Originally Posted by tpaterniti

For all of you who complain about too many INTs, think about this. There have been probably 200,000 high school QBs across the USA in the last 15 years, about 5,000 college QBs, and about 350 NFL QBs. Of all of these, only 32 are good enough to start on Sunday, and of these 32, probably only 20 can put up decent numbers. This is about 0.01%. Consider everyone in America (320,000,000). Of all those, only 20 can be a good NFL QB. That's one person in every 16 million people. What this means is that a "realistic" NFL game would be impossibly difficult. Now, of course, you only need the mental abilities-you're not running around making the throws yourself, but there should be a lot of INTs because let's face it- your average Joe who never played football at all should not realistically be able to run an NFL offense with Pro Bowl numbers. So to complain that a game where you average 2 or 3 INTs is unrealistic is absurd.

This makes no sense and does nothing to get your point across or deflect criticism of 2K5 in this area. I don't care how many INTs I throw, I'm only bothered by the picks the CPU throws. If every CPU QB threw 2 or 3 INTs a game, they would have 40 INTs a year and most average around 1 per game. (Of course, they don't play against human opponents more than 2 games when playing franchise).

You may like 2K5 significantly better but this argument does nothing to disprove the awful CPU passing attack in 2K5. No sliders or roster edits were able to fix it for me. No matter what I tried, they still forced the ball into coverage, had bad completion percentages and threw tons of picks.

[MOoNk]

I also thought 2k4 has better gameplay than 2k5 because 2k5 carries too many bugs such as Interception, sacks(lack of OL blocking), quarterback under 50%, and especially DB plays stupid.......

but after using Nickchew's roster I noticed most of them fixed..... DB plays better, clean..... hard to sack... quarterback % over 50, also scramble a lot.... low INT....

After all, I think 2k5 is best football game I ever played....

[Flyermania]

Quote: Originally Posted by rudyjuly2

You may like 2K5 significantly better but this argument does nothing to disprove the awful CPU passing attack in 2K5. No sliders or roster edits were able to fix it for me. No matter what I tried, they still forced the ball into coverage, had bad completion percentages and threw tons of picks.

Agreed. And this is why I'm not sure if I can be content with 2k5 for the next five years (or beyond). It is a great game, but the CPU passing game leaves a great deal to be desired.