NFL 2K4: Better AI, Programming than 2K5?

[SoCal-Phenom]

im sorry. i tend to bump too often eagerly awaiting some more answers....lol my bad

[coffeeholic]

I've played them both forever-I'm still using my old copy of 4 and would buy another just for backup. 4 Is IMO the best football sim ever made. Someone mentioned the short passing game. Well,to me that is realistic. Most football in reality is trying to get first downs and a little more unless it is a clutch situation-maybe Madden and it's 50 yard plus passes got people thinking that is how it should be. I can't agree with that. In real football,the average QB throws for approx. in the 200+ plus range in a full game. I think the average is about 240. With the right time for the gameplay set on 2K4,you can get those results. My only gripe with 4 is the running game sliders need to go down a bit and the tackle sliders need to go up a bit. I play on slightly modded All-pro sliders and couldn't be any more happy. I don't even care about the older rosters.

[baa7]

Quote: Originally Posted by coffeeholic

I don't even care about the older rosters.

Ha-ha! Same here. Actually, I'm just doing a bit of minor roster shuffling - Brees to the Saints, T.O. to the FA list, etc - and I've decided to create a retired players team. Everyone who has retired, all on the same team. Think I'll put them on one of the retirement cities: Arizona, or somewhere in Florida.

Edit: It occurred to me SF would be the best choice. Retirement climate; no Alex Smith in the game and therefore no starting QB to displace (actually, they’re so bad, no entire team to displace either); can restore the 49ers to their past glory. Gannon at QB; Emmitt in the backfield; Jerry Rice and Tim Brown the WR’s; Shannon Sharpe TE… Could be the team to beat this year

[baa7]

Quote: Originally Posted by SoCal-Phenom

im sorry. i tend to bump too often eagerly awaiting some more answers....lol my bad

Another answer here The kicking game in both 2K4 and 2K5 is flawed. And because the kicking game is so important, I spent hours testing and editing both CPU and User kicking. And while 2K5’s kicking game can’t be fixed with edits, it can be fixed in 2K4. It takes some serious rating changes, but it can be fixed.

Note: I don’t know if any of this will be of interest. I play single seasons only, so editing player ratings is something I do. If interested, maybe try editing a couple of teams and then testing to see if it works for you.

There are three kicker ratings that need adjusting in 2K4: power (KPW), accuracy (KAC) and consistency (CON).

* Power: lower to between 80 and 89, depending on the kicker (I have all my kickers rated between 82 and 88). That will still yield 50 yard FG’s (although the CPU doesn’t usually kick from that far out). And combined with the lowered Consistency rating, will yield both kickoffs that can go for touchbacks, and others that end up around the 5-10 yard line.

User kickers need their Power rating dropped an additional 10 points or so, to offset the advantage the User has in the kicking game. My team’s kicker has a Power rating of 75, meaning he can still make it from 50 yards if I hit 100% on the kick meter.

* Accuracy: determines how far left or right the FG or convert attempt will move. Believe it or not, I have all CPU kicker Accuracy ratings between 36 and 42. What this does besides lowering CPU FG accuracy, is it creates the occasional missed convert. Actually, it’s probably a bit too low, because I sometimes feel I get more CPU missed converts than I probably should. So consider rating kickers 40 to 50 or something.

User kickers need this rating lowered into the 20’s in order to see the occasional missed convert. My team’s kicker is rated 29.

* Consistency: works in conjunction with kick length, plus affects accuracy to a degree. I already explained how it affects kickoffs. It also affects FG’s of course. With a lower Consistency rating, the same kick (100%) will no longer yield the identical results – something that’s easier to see with User kicking than CPU kicking. My CPU kickers all have a Consistency rating of between 37 and 42. Again, those ratings could probably be raised to 40 to 50 for starters. But keep in mind: one rating point at this level means a big difference in the overall results. That’s just the way the game was programmed, apparently.

User kickers can have the same Consistency rating as CPU kickers, or even slightly higher (User kickers have a slight disadvantage over CPU kickers with this rating from what I’ve tested). My team’s kicker is rated 40 Consistency, and the best a perfectly kicked kickoff will do is hit the 2 yard line. I don’t like my kicker to kick touchbacks. So that rating could be bumped up obviously.

[augustus]

if you can stomach going back in terms of graphics (from 2K5 to 2K4), then I'd definitely go with 2K4. The CPU offers a far more challenging and consistent game. Not only does he make excellent decisions and reflect player ratings better, but the franchise is LIGHTYEARS better. FA's will refuse to sign with your team no matter what the cost and the draft is not broken either. The QB's will also scramble in 2K4; something they literally forgot to program into 2K5.

[drae2]

Quote: Originally Posted by augustus

if you can stomach going back in terms of graphics (from 2K5 to 2K4), then I'd definitely go with 2K4. The CPU offers a far more challenging and consistent game. Not only does he make excellent decisions and reflect player ratings better, but the franchise is LIGHTYEARS better. FA's will refuse to sign with your team no matter what the cost and the draft is not broken either. The QB's will also scramble in 2K4; something they literally forgot to program into 2K5.

I'm in the minority here, because I prefer 2K5 over 2k4. The running game in 2K5 is far superior imo, and the downfield passing, especially the deep passing is much better than 2K4. There are certain aspects to both games, if combined, would get you really close to the ultimate football gaming experience. As far as QB's not scrambling, all I know is when I play against teams that have the so called "scrambling" QB's (Culpepper, Vick, etc), they run on me. They don't run 20 times a game but they do run. These are just my experiences though.

[baa7]

Quote: Originally Posted by augustus

if you can stomach going back in terms of graphics (from 2K5 to 2K4), then I'd definitely go with 2K4.

Stomach? Compared to what Madden was offering the same year and the next couple AND with 2K7 on the Xbox no doubt, 2K4 is "next-gen". IMO, there's nothing to have to stomach. I prefer the player faces in 2K4; the cut scenes are better and programmed better IMO; no corncob-up-the-butt running animations in 2K4; and the QB passing animations are much better in 2K4.

And finally I prefer the 2K4 cheerleaders to those hyper-booby chicks in 2K5. Completely stupid, and shows just how much 2K was trying to appeal the 14 year old Madden crowd with 2K5, which IMO is one aspect of that game's big downfall.

[Rickster101]

Well I really can't say which is actually the better game since I'm probably in the minority also in being undecided picking between the two but my gut feelin' is leaning towards 2K5 for reasons of personel prefernce and convience working 2K5 rosters and playbooks.

Both are excellent in my opinion and I still play both but 2K4 started it all and when the VC crew went in to fix some items they went overboard abit and really hammered the passing game with the gameplay making it more difficult and just plain staggering to compete but in a good way, the running game was toned down also but now its killing the return game but can be delt with via the use of Finns editor.

So again IMO both are great but something about 2K4 felt more natural and fluid in the aspect of actually having a chance to compete thats not saying its better or anything like that I just feel the VC crew went a little overboard when fixing those items guys complained about and are now seeing it was something we all could have gotten along without them fixing those items so drastically as in the passing game and relentless DB play, they just went abit extreme on those issue IMO but still its a better game in some aspects and I guess its up to the user to make the final choice which is a good thing IMO.

I like em' both but I gotta give 2K5 the one up due to the fact its easier to edit and seems to be limited only by the use of an editor and doesn't appear to have any real limits as far as editing rosters and equipment, if 2K4 had one available I'd probably be doing both!

As for programming they both rock and I'm still in awe at looking at both games they're that good but again my preference is towards 2K5 as a personal choice.





Holla Back ya'll
Rickster101 aka "Jack Bauer"