2k5 Equals Crow

[Cardot]

Quote: Originally Posted by icicle22

Any one remember this? I miss that type of momentum.....nowadays, even in 2k5 the CPU adjusts too quickly to the direction that you are moving and it seems almost impossible to cut back on a pursuing defender. They adjust instantaneously to you change in direction it seems.

I agree with you Ice. I don't think any of the recent games truly nailed momentum. I would like to be able to juke by moving the stick in one direction, and then quickly the other. Not by a magical juke button that is over done.....Not to mention it is a physical move not available to the defense.

[TeeDogg]

Quote: Originally Posted by icicle22

Slightly off topic but something someone mentioned brought back this thought. Mind you, I am a die-hard NFL2k5 guy....haven't liked Madden in years. However, early in the PS2 years, either in Madden 2001 or 2002 there was a momentum feature that I Loved. I don't know if anyone can verify this or if my memory is failing me, but I seem to recall this: If I was a running back in the open field, say on the 20 yard line going towards the endzone, and I was angling toward the pylon at the front of the endzone. I am going full bore and 2-3 defenders are coming at me at an angle that will intercept me at the 4-5 yard line. As I approach that spot, I cut quickly and take an inside angle and the defenders momentum causes them to have to try to stop and change directions to follow me. That little delay allowed me to scoot in untouched or relatively untouched. I didn't juke or spin or dive. Simple physics allowed me to do this as the defenders own momentum actually took them out of position to make the play. This was against the CPU too so I got used to selling the defense by going hard right, and then cutting back once they had over-comitted. It felt very realistic and I remember this specifically because I was sitting there showing a replay over and over to my wife bragging about how autehntic this was (she didn't give a crap by the way!) and justifying the cash forked out for the Ps2. Any one remember this? I miss that type of momentum.....nowadays, even in 2k5 the CPU adjusts too quickly to the direction that you are moving and it seems almost impossible to cut back on a pursuing defender. They adjust instantaneously to you change in direction it seems. OK. Rant and hijack over. I am still playing 2k5 by the way. Hoping that we can get a new update for the next season too! Out!

That was an element in EA's games i flat LOVED. it was almost perfect, while 2k has made nice strides in that area, you are right it still wasnt quite there.

[icicle22]

Quote: Originally Posted by TeeDogg

That was an element in EA's games i flat LOVED. it was almost perfect, while 2k has made nice strides in that area, you are right it still wasnt quite there.

This wasn't just a problem with 2k5 as much as it was with all recent games. I have tried recent Madden games and that element seems to have disappeared from the currrent versions. It seems that around that same time (2001 or so) NFL2k still had super fast instantaneous cuts when moving different directions. In other words no momentum but more instantaneous control. So less realistic but it felt more responsive. I feel the Madden team tried to answer this by taking away some of the momentum to compete with NFL2k. At that same time, Sega started to add some momentum to compete with Madden. Ultimately both fall short now in either area. In an effort to appease everyone, it gets watered down. The joystick jockies hate the momentum and the sim addicts hate the lack of momentum. It sits in the middle somewhere and it needs to pick a side!

[TeeDogg]

Quote: Originally Posted by icicle22

This wasn't just a problem with 2k5 as much as it was with all recent games. I have tried recent Madden games and that element seems to have disappeared from the currrent versions. It seems that around that same time (2001 or so) NFL2k still had super fast instantaneous cuts when moving different directions. In other words no momentum but more instantaneous control. So less realistic but it felt more responsive. I feel the Madden team tried to answer this by taking away some of the momentum to compete with NFL2k. At that same time, Sega started to add some momentum to compete with Madden. Ultimately both fall short now in either area. In an effort to appease everyone, it gets watered down. The joystick jockies hate the momentum and the sim addicts hate the lack of momentum. It sits in the middle somewhere and it needs to pick a side!

I agree 100%, madden started taking it out around 03, and 2k started adding it. I must say i realy liked 2k's take on it in 2k5. they approached a little diffrent than EA's momentum, i thought it showed alot of promise. i liked how it applied much more when sprinting than just regular runing.

but i realy liked ea's momentum in 02 and 03. it just felt right. but alot of people on the madden boards hated it back then.

[Cardot]

As much as I liked 2K5, the momentum was something that frustrated me. Like when you dumped off a screen pass it would take forever for the RB to get going. And it was almost impossible to reverse direction on a running play.

I also enjoy the NCAA series. But I find it odd that if my RB is running in one direction, I can't quickly change direction, but I can hit the juke button that will enable him to instantaneously stop on a dime and jump 3 yards in the opposite direction.

[icicle22]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cardot

As much as I liked 2K5, the momentum was something that frustrated me. Like when you dumped off a screen pass it would take forever for the RB to get going. And it was almost impossible to reverse direction on a running play. I also enjoy the NCAA series. But I find it odd that if my RB is running in one direction, I can't quickly change direction, but I can hit the juke button that will enable him to instantaneously stop on a dime and jump 3 yards in the opposite direction.

Quite honestly screen plays were just awful in NFL2k5. I think that has less to do with momentum and more to do with canned animations. "IF" you completed a screen to your halfback the animation was so long and awful you'd almost certainly be crushed by the defense before you even righted yourself to run.

I am thinking more in terms of open field running.....sprinting at an angle toward the sidelines, getting the defensive backs to commit to pursue you at an intersecting angle, then cut back against the flow and watch them try to adjust. As an offensive player you have the advantage of knowing that you are going to cut it back against the grain...so your cut should be almost instantaneous. The defense has to react and should take a bit longer to compensate and try to change their angle of pursuit. This is what that old Madden 2001 did so well in my mind.

It isn't so much the actual controlled runner that I am concerned about. It is the CPU AI controlled defender who can change directions the instant that you do on offense. They need to implement real human like reaction time to achieve this balance again.

The bottom line is the AI reacts and change directions too fast to allow for any real cutbacks in the game. This is in "any" current game I might add.

Peace!

[DIEHARD STEELERS #1]

Quote: Originally Posted by icicle22

Quite honestly screen plays were just awful in NFL2k5. I think that has less to do with momentum and more to do with canned animations. "IF" you completed a screen to your halfback the animation was so long and awful you'd almost certainly be crushed by the defense before you even righted yourself to run. I am thinking more in terms of open field running.....sprinting at an angle toward the sidelines, getting the defensive backs to commit to pursue you at an intersecting angle, then cut back against the flow and watch them try to adjust. As an offensive player you have the advantage of knowing that you are going to cut it back against the grain...so your cut should be almost instantaneous. The defense has to react and should take a bit longer to compensate and try to change their angle of pursuit. This is what that old Madden 2001 did so well in my mind. It isn't so much the actual controlled runner that I am concerned about. It is the CPU AI controlled defender who can change directions the instant that you do on offense. They need to implement real human like reaction time to achieve this balance again. The bottom line is the AI reacts and change directions too fast to allow for any real cutbacks in the game. This is in "any" current game I might add. Peace!

I can dig what your saying.I love the running game.But it can get real frustrating .Last night I'm playing and the kick returns were brutal.I'm gonna pick up those old maddens,01,02,and 03 so I can see what yall are talkin about.Thanks for the info

[icicle22]

Quote: Originally Posted by DIEHARD STEELERS #1

I can dig what your saying.I love the running game.But it can get real frustrating .Last night I'm playing and the kick returns were brutal.I'm gonna pick up those old maddens,01,02,and 03 so I can see what yall are talkin about.Thanks for the info

I am thinking of grabbing Madden 2001 also....it might cost what? A couple bucks now? I am hoping that I am not crazy and that it was really good at this "one" feature. Remember....I am not saying the game was great. I actually didn't care for a lot of it. But I remember the feeling of hauling arse out of the backfield towards the sideline and watching the DBs coming at me from an angle. As I got close "bam" I cut back inside of their pusuit lanes and they can't adjust in time. I run right past them all for a 15 yard TD.

You've all seen this happen in the real NFL. Sometimes a HB will go in untouched because he simply cuts back against the grain and every defender is out of position.

Let me know what you think. I am hoping I am not hyping it up to be more than it really was!