Did ANYONE like 2K4 OVER 2K5??

[bsb13]

Quote: Originally Posted by rudyjuly2

At the time I absolutely loved 2K4. People complained about the super backs but so many things were done so well it was just a blast. In many ways it was better than 2K5 which I never loved and couldn't get over some of the problems. I really can't remember the faults with 2K4 (I know there were some problems) but it played great out of the box and did a lot of things better than 2K5. Areas where 2K5 went downhill after 2K4 fatigue. This was great in 2K4 and terrible in 2K5. The cpu never subbed in their backups and the fatigue slider didn't work well (I think I set it on 4 or 5 iirc). cpu QB play. This became a gamekiller for me. The cpu made a ton of horrible decisions throwing and threw a ton of INTs. I think it was worse than NCAA '08 on the PS3 which is saying something. In 2K4 the cpu QB never threw deep but at least they were effective. DB play. This was just bad in 2K5 but turning on performance Eq really helped. screen plays. This was done so well in 2K4 but the stupid momentum animation in 2K5 made it almost unusable. counter plays. Again, the timing of the guards pulling was done better in 2K4. franchise draft. The fact the cpu only drafted 4 positions in the first round was simply ludicrous. sliders. While 2K4 was fantastic out of the box, this game required endless adjustments. As for 2K3, it was a fun game but it had a major bug. The offensive tackles on offense were always in a two point stance for passing plays. The only time they weren't was for play action. This let you key on what type of play the cpu was calling 98% of the time and was really dumb. You had to try not to look at the tackles to prevent yourself from cheating on the play.

I agree, I liked 2k4 better or atleast against the CPU I liked it better. I always loved 2k's engine but man their games lacked serious polish.

[Malignant]

Quote: Originally Posted by dan77733

I remember winning the SB and then saw this fake sumo wrestler in free agents. 2K4 was sold the next day.

I agree it's an annoying feature but it's easily avoidable. Minor tweaks to the sliders would switch them to custom mode (rather than the preset 'amateur' or 'pro' modes etc) and thus quite a few un-lockables would be disabled.

For me personally some minor tweaks to the kickers and playing with zero sliders makes 2K4 pretty much perfect.

[dan77733]

^^^^^

Actually, I use the same trick in 2K5 that people told me worked in 2K4 and that's eliminate the user name when playing. I simply switch to "none" and the Crib becomes non-existent.

[GB33]

Quote: Originally Posted by rudyjuly2

At the time I absolutely loved 2K4. People complained about the super backs but so many things were done so well it was just a blast. In many ways it was better than 2K5 which I never loved and couldn't get over some of the problems. I really can't remember the faults with 2K4 (I know there were some problems) but it played great out of the box and did a lot of things better than 2K5. Areas where 2K5 went downhill after 2K4 fatigue. This was great in 2K4 and terrible in 2K5. The cpu never subbed in their backups and the fatigue slider didn't work well (I think I set it on 4 or 5 iirc). cpu QB play. This became a gamekiller for me. The cpu made a ton of horrible decisions throwing and threw a ton of INTs. I think it was worse than NCAA '08 on the PS3 which is saying something. In 2K4 the cpu QB never threw deep but at least they were effective. DB play. This was just bad in 2K5 but turning on performance Eq really helped. screen plays. This was done so well in 2K4 but the stupid momentum animation in 2K5 made it almost unusable. counter plays. Again, the timing of the guards pulling was done better in 2K4. franchise draft. The fact the cpu only drafted 4 positions in the first round was simply ludicrous. sliders. While 2K4 was fantastic out of the box, this game required endless adjustments. As for 2K3, it was a fun game but it had a major bug. The offensive tackles on offense were always in a two point stance for passing plays. The only time they weren't was for play action. This let you key on what type of play the cpu was calling 98% of the time and was really dumb. You had to try not to look at the tackles to prevent yourself from cheating on the play.

Great list. But I would like to add Offensive Line. In 2k4 it formed a perfect pocket. In 2k5 the pocket is non-existant and LB's and linemen are often just let right by.

[The 24th Letter]

i remember it being hard as all get out to get a sack in 2k4.....i appreciate that realism now but I didnt like it back then

[dan77733]

Quote: Originally Posted by The 23rd Letter

i remember it being hard as all get out to get a sack in 2k4.....i appreciate that realism now but I didnt like it back then

I think you mean 2K3 because in 2K4 and 2K5, I could get anywhere from 40 to over 100 sacks with one player in a single season and I only play 5 minute quarters.

[dan77733]

Quote: Originally Posted by rudyjuly2

Areas where 2K5 went downhill after 2K4 fatigue. This was great in 2K4 and terrible in 2K5. The cpu never subbed in their backups and the fatigue slider didn't work well (I think I set it on 4 or 5 iirc). cpu QB play. This became a gamekiller for me. The cpu made a ton of horrible decisions throwing and threw a ton of INTs. I think it was worse than NCAA '08 on the PS3 which is saying something. In 2K4 the cpu QB never threw deep but at least they were effective. DB play. This was just bad in 2K5 but turning on performance Eq really helped. screen plays. This was done so well in 2K4 but the stupid momentum animation in 2K5 made it almost unusable. counter plays. Again, the timing of the guards pulling was done better in 2K4. franchise draft. The fact the cpu only drafted 4 positions in the first round was simply ludicrous. sliders. While 2K4 was fantastic out of the box, this game required endless adjustments.

I think players being subbed in by the CPU has to do with how you setup your own auto subs. Before I start a franchise, I start a quick game with the home and away teams being the same team. I go to auto subs and set it at 5% in/out for both the home and away team as I hate it when I see crappy backups coming in. I only play 5 minutes per quarter as anything more takes too long and gets kind of boring and anything less makes the game end too fast. Anyway, if you setup the auto subs the way you want the CPU to be, do it here and test it out in franchise. I have never tested this out but since adjusting the auto subs percentage in quick game carries over into franchise, im guessing that it will work.

As for the fatigue, if anything, I think that the players get tired a little faster than they should especially if you globally edit positions like I do. The players that get tired the most for me are always OL and DL because playing on Legend, the fatigue / stamina is only at 10 and for the players themselves, I have all the OL and DL set at 70 for stamina. The fatigue slider and the stamina attribute are linked together somehow for those who dont know.

QB passing doesnt bother me and the CPU does pass deep if you dont have your safeties back there in coverage. As for the INT's, I usually average 16-18 a season but it depends more on who you're playing with and against. If I play with a crappy defensive team, I can guarantee that I wont have that many INT's compared to if im playing with a good defensive team like Philly.

The DB AI is bad at times but what pisses me off the most is the crappy angles they take, especially the safeties. Sometimes they're running backwards. If the angles were fixed, this probably wouldnt be an issue.

I used to use screens in 2K3 but I rarely if ever even try them in 2K5 because of the momentum but as much as I hate the momentum, it's realistic and should be in the game. I never use counter plays ever. I hate them. I prefer using the three or four WR sets and using the strong/weak dives up the middle. I'm also not a fan of using running plays with the FB because he more times than not gets in my damn way.

Franchise draft, I agree 100%. In fact, the entire off-season is plagued with horrible AI. I dont even want to start listing all the negatives because if I do, I'll never finish.

As for sliders, I have never liked sliders ever. I personally think that instead of the developer actually solving the gameplay issues, they put sliders in the game so the player can fix them. I dont even think that their should be a difficulty level at all. It should all be based on skill, selecting the right play at the right time and using audibles to expose the defense's gaps like in zone coverage. Of course, im the only one in the world who doesnt like sliders. And another thing that I hate about sliders is that they are attached to penalties. How the hell can a penalty have different degrees? Either it's a penalty or it isnt. Enough said.

Quote: Originally Posted by rudyjuly2

As for 2K3, it was a fun game but it had a major bug. The offensive tackles on offense were always in a two point stance for passing plays. The only time they weren't was for play action. This let you key on what type of play the cpu was calling 98% of the time and was really dumb. You had to try not to look at the tackles to prevent yourself from cheating on the play.

I agree and the funny thing is that I didnt even know about this bug until months later. There were other problems as well including the inability to get sacks and the "stop and go" which has to do with the CPU DB AI. The running game was superior compared to 2K4 and 2K5. The spin move was also superior because it required timing. The better the timing, the better the spin. If the timing was off, your RB would perform a stutter step instead. My friend hate the spin move in 2K3 but only because he wasnt good at it. I sucked at first but practiced for a week and while not perfect, I became pretty good with the timing in order to perform better spin moves. The stiff arm in 2K3 was non-existent and the juke move was a cheat but it's also a cheat in 2K5 but not to the same extent as it was in 2K3. In 2K4 and 2K5, you can pretty much spin at will and I hate that because it reminds me of Madden. Just another reason why I prefer "power" backs over "finesse" backs.

The play-calling was also superior in 2K-2K3 because it shows the play on the field. I hate those crappy small old obsolete past its prime unoriginal and non-innovative boxes that's in 2K5 (and 2K4). My friend purchased Madden 2008 for 360 and while he just sold it, the funny thing is that he said the play-calling was like it was in 2K3. EA/Tirubon finally got smart in that regard. Sadly, VC went backwards with 2K4 and 2K5.

[adriano]

2k4 did alot of things right..

Some of the things they tried to address in 2k5 were too heavy handed.
For example running Qbs would fumble every time you tried to scramble.
Once you upped their Secure Ball Rating that problem disapeared. In 2k5 they made it coded, so that Qbs would'nt fumble at all. Maybe once in like 30 games you would see a fumble. Basically rendering the secure ball rating meaningless in 2k5 ( for qbs )

Hot routed Flag routes were ******** in 2k4. If you tried that too early in the pattern the DB would jam the WR.. which was ok, I didnt have a problem with that. But, the Qb is throwing to a spot so instead of a overthrow the Ball would go straight in the air and it was picked almost everytime. So Flag routes were basically a useless.


Pursuit AI.. In 2k4 if you ran laterally the Defense would take a bad angle everytime. So on scrambles you could run to the sidelines then turn up field and smoke everyone..

Stamina.. this was the biggest problem with 2k4,5.. Some backs were just too high in this category, making them break too many tackles.. Some FBs were rated 70 overall but because of their stamina ratings (90s) they would be able to break tackle after tackle..Rock Cartwright, Allstott, ETC..and lets not forget Eddie George.. My friend was a Titan fan he could not beat me with any other team but the Titans.. Eddies 95 stamina 87 speed (nightmares).. Some games he would have 300 yards..



Special Teams. Since Special teams included players who play offense. Their tackling and run coverage ratings were too low.. thats why there was soo many kickoffs for TDs.. in 2k5 they handcuffed the returners to fix that..


But when you redo stamina ratings for the Rbs, Raise secure ball ratings for the QBs.. and also change cover ratings for special teams the game played phenominal.. I logged alot of time on 2k4, its the last game I really was into..
2k5 was good, but it had its problems.