2K4

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  • Cardot
    I'm not on InstantFace.
    • Feb 2003
    • 6164

    #1

    2K4

    I know the 2K4 vs 2K5 debate has been hashed out a few times, but couldn't find any of the threads...not sure if they have been purged?

    Anyhow, next gen football hasn't really fit the bill for me. NCAA '08 is a mess, and I just coudn't get into APF 2K8.

    I still love 2K5, but I am a little tired of not being allowed to run flag routes. So I am thinking about playing 2K4 again. I played a half last night, and one thing that immediately caught my attention is how quickly a receiver can take off running after catching a pass....especially the RB. That is nice.

    But are there other drawbacks that I am forgetting. Are there money plays in 2K4? I really am looking to get back into a football game where I don't have to incorporate a bunch of house rules.

    From what I recall, the following are advantages for 2K5:
    1. CPU will punt from user 28 yard line in 2K4.
    2. 2K4 CPU kickers never miss (although can be fixed by editing all kickers).
    3. Halftime Highlights enhanced in 2K5 and weekly wrapup includes user's game.
    4. Easier to find rosters for 2K5.

    2K4 seems to have the advantage with
    1. Better pocket?
    2. Better DB ai.
    3. Recievers don't get caught in animations...so plays like the screen are easier to do.

    How was the 2K4 frachise mode?

    Again, sorry for the redundant topic, but I would be interested in any thoughts people might have on the topic.
  • dan77733
    Banned
    • Aug 2003
    • 2406

    #2
    Re: 2K4

    Originally posted by Cardot
    I know the 2K4 vs 2K5 debate has been hashed out a few times, but couldn't find any of the threads...not sure if they have been purged?

    Anyhow, next gen football hasn't really fit the bill for me. NCAA '08 is a mess, and I just coudn't get into APF 2K8.

    I still love 2K5, but I am a little tired of not being allowed to run flag routes. So I am thinking about playing 2K4 again. I played a half last night, and one thing that immediately caught my attention is how quickly a receiver can take off running after catching a pass....especially the RB. That is nice.

    But are there other drawbacks that I am forgetting. Are there money plays in 2K4? I really am looking to get back into a football game where I don't have to incorporate a bunch of house rules.

    From what I recall, the following are advantages for 2K5:
    1. CPU will punt from user 28 yard line in 2K4.
    2. 2K4 CPU kickers never miss (although can be fixed by editing all kickers).
    3. Halftime Highlights enhanced in 2K5 and weekly wrapup includes user's game.
    4. Easier to find rosters for 2K5.

    2K4 seems to have the advantage with
    1. Better pocket?
    2. Better DB ai.
    3. Recievers don't get caught in animations...so plays like the screen are easier to do.

    How was the 2K4 frachise mode?

    Again, sorry for the redundant topic, but I would be interested in any thoughts people might have on the topic.
    The franchise mode is exactly the same as 2k5 but without the horrible draft and off-season AI.

    I hated 2K4 because of that crappy Crib. Unlike 2K5, you have to select "none" for each game or otherwise, you're stuck with crappy legends or fake players in your franchise which is what ended 2K4 for me.

    I played one season in 2K4 on Legend with the Dolphins and rushed my way to a SB with Ricky Wiliams. I barely passed. I quit after that and went back to 2K3 until 2K5 came out. The only thing that I like in 2K4 over 2K5 is that the CPU will fake punts and field goals where as in 2K5, I have never ever seen that. Also, the off-season isnt flawed as it is in 2K5.

    Gameplay wise, running was way too easy and there not being any momentum makes the game unrealistic in my opinion. I dont have a problem with passing in the pocket in 2K5 so why people complain about that is beyond me. After all, I play with Manning and the Colts and he isnt running anywhere. Sacks are too easy in both games but are harder to get if you're running a 3-4 defense and using a DE. The DB AI is said to be better in 2K4 but I didnt need to pass in 2K4 so I cant say how good it was in 2K4 but I will say that 2K5's DB AI would be good if we were able to eliminate the horrible angles and when the DB's run in circles. You dont know how much I hate that even though I did read that the patch fixes some of the DB animations but I dont know if that's 100% accurate.

    Obviously, the best reason as to why 2K5 is better than 2K4 is Finn's editor. There's no way that I could ever go back to playing 2K5 on PS2 and deal with all those damn limitations. I own 2K4 for Xbox but I own it for one reason and that reason is since it uses the same editing setup, you can copy players from 2K4 into 2K5 without any problems. For example, Saints DT Hollis Thomas is in 2K4 but not 2K5. I simply copy him over, add his photo and PBP that slapnutz found and he's good to go.

    I have said it before and I will say it again -

    2K5 > 2K3 > 2K1 > 2K4 > 2K2 > 2K.

    Comment

    • Cardot
      I'm not on InstantFace.
      • Feb 2003
      • 6164

      #3
      Re: 2K4

      I think Finn created a 2K4 editor as well.

      The running game was jacked up in 2K4, but that could be resolved by the RB slider. When I played last night, I looked at the slider settings I had played with (5 years ago lol)....RB Ability was toned down for me and the CPU, but most of the other sliders were pretty close to default.

      Thanks for the feedback.

      Comment

      • daflyboys
        Banned
        • May 2003
        • 18238

        #4
        Re: 2K4

        From what I recall, the following are advantages for 2K5:
        1. CPU will punt from user 28 yard line in 2K4. That's a big game killer.
        2. 2K4 CPU kickers never miss (although can be fixed by editing all kickers). Did this and this is very true.
        3. Halftime Highlights enhanced in 2K5 and weekly wrapup includes user's game. Unsurpassed by any game thus far.
        4. Easier to find rosters for 2K5. No brainer.

        2K4 seems to have the advantage with
        1. Better pocket? Which in K5 I think can be fixed via Finn's editor by enhancing OL pass blocking and reducing DT pass rush (which I'm looking to do) and/or the slider.
        2. Better DB ai. This might be the one area where 2K4 will always excel, but again not unplayable in K5.
        3. Recievers don't get caught in animations...so plays like the screen are easier to do. I don't see an animation problem other than some screen passes which you can correct by changing the RB's pattern. My main gripe with this is that it seems like the LB on that side of the field ALWAYS sniffs out this play.

        Comment

        • dan77733
          Banned
          • Aug 2003
          • 2406

          #5
          Re: 2K4

          You're welcome.

          As far as I know, Finn never created an editor for 2K4. The running game was easy and remember I was playing on Legend and I still rushed for over 2000 yards and SB title with MIA. That's nuts.

          Comment

          • dan77733
            Banned
            • Aug 2003
            • 2406

            #6
            Re: 2K4

            Can someone explain to me what the problem is with pocket passing in 2K5? I have played with the Colts and Manning and since im pass happy, I can pass in the pocket successfully. I dont need to roll out or scramble in order to pass the ball. I just dont understand how some people have a problem with this.

            Comment

            • daflyboys
              Banned
              • May 2003
              • 18238

              #7
              Re: 2K4

              Originally posted by dan77733
              Can someone explain to me what the problem is with pocket passing in 2K5? I have played with the Colts and Manning and since im pass happy, I can pass in the pocket successfully. I dont need to roll out or scramble in order to pass the ball. I just dont understand how some people have a problem with this.
              Depends on the team you're using I guess. Also, depends on who you're facing and what settings you use. Plus, from what I gathered in your previous postings, dan, you are on a bit more of a speed game mode, playing with only 5 min. qtrs. I think the observation is that the pocket breaks down more quickly in K5 vs. K4? Dunno.

              Comment

              • dan77733
                Banned
                • Aug 2003
                • 2406

                #8
                Re: 2K4

                Originally posted by daflyboys
                Depends on the team you're using I guess. Also, depends on who you're facing and what settings you use. Plus, from what I gathered in your previous postings, dan, you are on a bit more of a speed game mode, playing with only 5 min. qtrs. I think the observation is that the pocket breaks down more quickly in K5 vs. K4? Dunno.
                I only play 5 minute quarters. Been doing this since the Play Action Football, Montana and Tecmo days on NES, GEN and SNES respectively. Anything less is too short while anything longer drags.

                I would say that I have at least three seconds to pass which is good. I also think that it has to do with how many steps the QB drops back. I have noticed that the further you drop back, the less time you have. I'll go back three steps or so and when I see the DE's coming around, I'll step up in the pocket and pass the ball. Rarely do QB's get a lot of time to just stand there in the pocket, take a nap and then pass unless of course you're the Seahawks playing against the 49ers in SF, then yes, you'll have an infinity amount of time before you pass.

                Comment

                • aff4life
                  Rookie
                  • Nov 2007
                  • 339

                  #9
                  Re: 2K4

                  2K4 seems to have the advantage with
                  1. Better pocket? Which in K5 I think can be fixed via Finn's editor by enhancing OL pass blocking and reducing DT pass rush (which I'm looking to do) and/or the slider.

                  The easiest thing to do, IMO, is to use the power pocket cheat. Trust me you can still get sacked when the CPU blitzes. You'll still have to run for your life. I've been sacked 6 times by the Jags even with the cheat on. And considering how often a Brady or a Manning gets sacked throughout the season, getting sacked 20-30 a season is right a par, really.

                  2. Better DB ai. This might be the one area where 2K4 will always excel, but again not unplayable in K5.

                  How was it better?

                  3. Recievers don't get caught in animations...so plays like the screen are easier to do. I don't see an animation problem other than some screen passes which you can correct by changing the RB's pattern. My main gripe with this is that it seems like the LB on that side of the field ALWAYS sniffs out this play.

                  As far as I can tell, screen passes have NEVER worked in ANY football video game. I just don't run 'em. Which is too bad, cuz they were a staple of the Dick Vermeil Chiefs.
                  "Convenience is the death of virtue."

                  Comment

                  • Cardot
                    I'm not on InstantFace.
                    • Feb 2003
                    • 6164

                    #10
                    Re: 2K4

                    How was it better?

                    Well the big thing for me is that the flag route is not money as it is in 2K5.

                    Comment

                    • aff4life
                      Rookie
                      • Nov 2007
                      • 339

                      #11
                      Re: 2K4

                      Originally posted by Cardot
                      How was it better?

                      Well the big thing for me is that the flag route is not money as it is in 2K5.
                      Ah yes, I see. I love that route BTW. But hell, would it be a football video game if there wasn't "money routes"?
                      "Convenience is the death of virtue."

                      Comment

                      • daflyboys
                        Banned
                        • May 2003
                        • 18238

                        #12
                        Re: 2K4

                        Originally posted by Cardot
                        How was it better?

                        Well the big thing for me is that the flag route is not money as it is in 2K5.

                        Maybe upping the coverage rate little by little for the safeties until it's not so money?

                        Comment

                        • Cardot
                          I'm not on InstantFace.
                          • Feb 2003
                          • 6164

                          #13
                          Re: 2K4

                          Originally posted by daflyboys
                          Maybe upping the coverage rate little by little for the safeties until it's not so money?
                          How do you handle the flag route Gordie? Do you ever use them? Do you put limits on them? Or do the roster updates you've made resolve it? Upping the coverage rate might help, but then the safeties will be too tough on the other routes that work fine now.

                          I still really like 2K5, but after playing it for so long, there are just a bunch of plays that almost never work, and others that are money....(which is a problem with all football games).

                          Comment

                          • catcatch22
                            Or should I
                            • Sep 2003
                            • 3378

                            #14
                            Re: 2K4

                            Originally posted by aff4life
                            As far as I can tell, screen passes have NEVER worked in ANY football video game. I just don't run 'em. Which is too bad, cuz they were a staple of the Dick Vermeil Chiefs.
                            Wow you must not have played All Pro 2k8 cause the screen pass is very effective in that game. Some would dare to call it cheese.

                            Comment

                            • aff4life
                              Rookie
                              • Nov 2007
                              • 339

                              #15
                              Re: 2K4

                              Originally posted by catcatch22
                              Wow you must not have played All Pro 2k8 cause the screen pass is very effective in that game. Some would dare to call it cheese.
                              Really? My roommate has APFB and says they don't work there either. I dunno, maybe he sucks?
                              "Convenience is the death of virtue."

                              Comment

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