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Graphik · 07-28-2003, 12:37 PM

The fluff is why casual gamers buy games. We as hardcore sports gamers want gameplay, but would you strickly advertise gameplay to sell copies. If the back of the box says "Most realistic gameplay ever", that right there would be a turn-off to a guy who does'nt even watch football but plays it.

You made a good point saying where can they go now with features. It will never end. The Crib mode is evidence of that. But I think Sega made a mistake this year because where can they go next year now that it seems like they threw all thier cards on the table. If I was them, this FPM would have been enough to get ppls interest in the game. But they went all out, the Crib, the Charge, Chain Reaction, 1000 new animations. They could have saved some of that for next years game IMO. They could of had the FPM, the Charge and 500 new animations as all thier new stuff but they put it all out there. Now I cant imagine what they will have in store for us next year.

All Madden has is an Owners mode, and this new PlayMaker feature. SO they still have alot of new features they can add for the upcoming years.

All I'm saying is the fluff has always been there. Its part of every genre. Action, RPG, Adventure, whatever. Ppl like inncentives. Thats the bottom line.

ChicagoSparty · 07-28-2003, 12:55 PM

So, let's say a game came out, and the gameplay was excellent, but it had no season mode, let alone franchise mode. You could just play one team against another.

I think that would get real old, real quick, no matter how great the gameplay was.

The games are modeled after NFL football. Part of the NFL is being able to build a team, and keep a team together. The games try and represent that as well as having good play on the field.

I'm very content with the mix of on-the-field, as well as off-the-field features. It's true that I favor on-the-field gameplay most, but as long as it's good, and fairly realistic, I am happy.

njskillz · 07-28-2003, 12:58 PM

Quote:

mackandmoon said:
I agree with some of your post but my problem is that now those incentives are the focus of the games. These incentives are selling more games than the gameplay. This is where I find the majority of the problem. Ask yourself, where do we go with incentives after this year? Now that Madden has the Owner's Mode could you list some things that they can add now that will change the game? It seems that eventually the incentives will run out & what's left? GAMEPLAY. So if the gameplay isn't top notch then everything else should be second fiddle. It's like putting thousands of dollars in a vehicle to paint, upholster, & beef up the outside & keeping the engine knocking & sputtering.

Alot of people are complaining about FPF but it's actually a gameplay mode & people are running away from it. I know none of us have actually played it yet but noone is actually optimistic on these boards about it but a few VIDEOGAME players. This only reinforces the fact that many sports gamers are not actually sport gamers. Not because they wont actually like FPF, but because it's a turn-off because it's not a stat mode which doesn't involve any gameplay of the game of football. The main question is where are we headed as sports videogame players if we choose fluff over substance?

Mack,

Don't lose hope my friend, there are still a few of us out there who feel gameplay is THE MOST important issue when it comes to a video football sim. If I wanted to worry about Money Management, Construction costs, Pricing trends, etc., why would I pick up a football game sim? Wouldn't I just pick up some business software? When someone buys a game like Ghost Recon, do they worry about how much money is in the military budget to finance sending the troops on their missions? How about Splinter Cell? Is a gamer really concerned about how much the electric bill is in that buiding that they are sneaking around? The answers are no, and no. Why all these issues have come into play in a FOOTBALL sim baffles my mind.

njskillz · 07-28-2003, 01:06 PM

Quote:

ChicagoSparty said:
So, let's say a game came out, and the gameplay was excellent, but it had no season mode, let alone franchise mode. You could just play one team against another.

I think that would get real old, real quick, no matter how great the gameplay was.

The games are modeled after NFL football. Part of the NFL is being able to build a team, and keep a team together. The games try and represent that as well as having good play on the field.

I'm very content with the mix of on-the-field, as well as off-the-field features. It's true that I favor on-the-field gameplay most, but as long as it's good, and fairly realistic, I am happy.

In the online age, with leagues sprouting up left and right, if a game offered realistic graphics and gameplay, up to date rosters and player ratings, your damn right I would buy that game. I did already. It was called NFL2K3 (ok, the player ratings weren't the greatest, but I stand by everything else! LOL!) I have never and will never even click on Franchise, Crib, etc. I'm not knocking those who do but just can't see how that stuff would make or break whether someone would buy a FOOTBALL sim.

Graphik · 07-28-2003, 01:09 PM

Quote:

njskillz said:

Quote:

ChicagoSparty said:
So, let's say a game came out, and the gameplay was excellent, but it had no season mode, let alone franchise mode. You could just play one team against another.

I think that would get real old, real quick, no matter how great the gameplay was.

The games are modeled after NFL football. Part of the NFL is being able to build a team, and keep a team together. The games try and represent that as well as having good play on the field.

I'm very content with the mix of on-the-field, as well as off-the-field features. It's true that I favor on-the-field gameplay most, but as long as it's good, and fairly realistic, I am happy.

In the online age, with leagues sprouting up left and right, if a game offered realistic graphics and gameplay, up to date rosters and player ratings, your damn right I would buy that game. I did already. It was called NFL2K3 (ok, the player ratings weren't the greatest, but I stand by everything else! LOL!) I have never and will never even click on Franchise, Crib, etc. I'm not knocking those who do but just can't see how that stuff would make or break whether someone would buy a FOOTBALL sim.

That just goes to the point I made earlier. Would if all the football games were in thier first year. How would you know which one to get if it only provided straight up gameplay?

ChicagoSparty · 07-28-2003, 01:40 PM

Quote:

njskillz said:

Quote:

ChicagoSparty said:
So, let's say a game came out, and the gameplay was excellent, but it had no season mode, let alone franchise mode. You could just play one team against another.

I think that would get real old, real quick, no matter how great the gameplay was.

The games are modeled after NFL football. Part of the NFL is being able to build a team, and keep a team together. The games try and represent that as well as having good play on the field.

I'm very content with the mix of on-the-field, as well as off-the-field features. It's true that I favor on-the-field gameplay most, but as long as it's good, and fairly realistic, I am happy.

In the online age, with leagues sprouting up left and right, if a game offered realistic graphics and gameplay, up to date rosters and player ratings, your damn right I would buy that game. I did already. It was called NFL2K3 (ok, the player ratings weren't the greatest, but I stand by everything else! LOL!) I have never and will never even click on Franchise, Crib, etc. I'm not knocking those who do but just can't see how that stuff would make or break whether someone would buy a FOOTBALL sim.

It does for me. I, for one, have no time to be keeping up with an online league. I'd be the one that would never play the games on time, etc. It's strictly sole-player for me.

Graphik · 07-28-2003, 01:44 PM

I was just in a baseball league awhile ago and had to quit cause of schedules and all. It was cool at first but then it got to be a lil boring cause I did'nt have any stats or franchise stuff to look at. I'm sure XSN will change all that in the future. But for know, the CPU puts up a good fight.

njskillz · 07-28-2003, 01:52 PM

Quote:

ChicagoSparty said:

Quote:

njskillz said:

Quote:

ChicagoSparty said:
So, let's say a game came out, and the gameplay was excellent, but it had no season mode, let alone franchise mode. You could just play one team against another.

I think that would get real old, real quick, no matter how great the gameplay was.

The games are modeled after NFL football. Part of the NFL is being able to build a team, and keep a team together. The games try and represent that as well as having good play on the field.

I'm very content with the mix of on-the-field, as well as off-the-field features. It's true that I favor on-the-field gameplay most, but as long as it's good, and fairly realistic, I am happy.

In the online age, with leagues sprouting up left and right, if a game offered realistic graphics and gameplay, up to date rosters and player ratings, your damn right I would buy that game. I did already. It was called NFL2K3 (ok, the player ratings weren't the greatest, but I stand by everything else! LOL!) I have never and will never even click on Franchise, Crib, etc. I'm not knocking those who do but just can't see how that stuff would make or break whether someone would buy a FOOTBALL sim.

It does for me. I, for one, have no time to be keeping up with an online league. I'd be the one that would never play the games on time, etc. It's strictly sole-player for me.

Well that is a shame. The true beauty of NFL2K3 is it's multi-player gaming experience. I can understand the time issue though. I'm sure if I sat down and figured out what I could and SHOULD be doing as opposed to playing a videogame, I would probably be in agreement with you.

07-28-2003, 12:37 PM	#9
Graphik Prsnr#70460649 OVR: 22* Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chi-Town, Ill-State Posts: 10,559	Re: Why have gamers let....... The fluff is why casual gamers buy games. We as hardcore sports gamers want gameplay, but would you strickly advertise gameplay to sell copies. If the back of the box says "Most realistic gameplay ever", that right there would be a turn-off to a guy who does'nt even watch football but plays it. You made a good point saying where can they go now with features. It will never end. The Crib mode is evidence of that. But I think Sega made a mistake this year because where can they go next year now that it seems like they threw all thier cards on the table. If I was them, this FPM would have been enough to get ppls interest in the game. But they went all out, the Crib, the Charge, Chain Reaction, 1000 new animations. They could have saved some of that for next years game IMO. They could of had the FPM, the Charge and 500 new animations as all thier new stuff but they put it all out there. Now I cant imagine what they will have in store for us next year. All Madden has is an Owners mode, and this new PlayMaker feature. SO they still have alot of new features they can add for the upcoming years. All I'm saying is the fluff has always been there. Its part of every genre. Action, RPG, Adventure, whatever. Ppl like inncentives. Thats the bottom line.

07-28-2003, 12:55 PM	#10
ChicagoSparty MVP OVR: 13 Join Date: Jun 2003	Re: Why have gamers let....... So, let's say a game came out, and the gameplay was excellent, but it had no season mode, let alone franchise mode. You could just play one team against another. I think that would get real old, real quick, no matter how great the gameplay was. The games are modeled after NFL football. Part of the NFL is being able to build a team, and keep a team together. The games try and represent that as well as having good play on the field. I'm very content with the mix of on-the-field, as well as off-the-field features. It's true that I favor on-the-field gameplay most, but as long as it's good, and fairly realistic, I am happy.

07-28-2003, 12:58 PM	#11
njskillz Pro OVR: 7 Join Date: Jul 2002	Re: Why have gamers let....... Quote: *mackandmoon said:* I agree with some of your post but my problem is that now those incentives are the focus of the games. These incentives are selling more games than the gameplay. This is where I find the majority of the problem. Ask yourself, where do we go with incentives after this year? Now that Madden has the Owner's Mode could you list some things that they can add now that will change the game? It seems that eventually the incentives will run out & what's left? GAMEPLAY. So if the gameplay isn't top notch then everything else should be second fiddle. It's like putting thousands of dollars in a vehicle to paint, upholster, & beef up the outside & keeping the engine knocking & sputtering. Alot of people are complaining about FPF but it's actually a gameplay mode & people are running away from it. I know none of us have actually played it yet but noone is actually optimistic on these boards about it but a few VIDEOGAME players. This only reinforces the fact that many sports gamers are not actually sport gamers. Not because they wont actually like FPF, but because it's a turn-off because it's not a stat mode which doesn't involve any gameplay of the game of football. The main question is where are we headed as sports videogame players if we choose fluff over substance? Mack, Don't lose hope my friend, there are still a few of us out there who feel gameplay is THE MOST important issue when it comes to a video football sim. If I wanted to worry about Money Management, Construction costs, Pricing trends, etc., why would I pick up a football game sim? Wouldn't I just pick up some business software? When someone buys a game like Ghost Recon, do they worry about how much money is in the military budget to finance sending the troops on their missions? How about Splinter Cell? Is a gamer really concerned about how much the electric bill is in that buiding that they are sneaking around? The answers are no, and no. Why all these issues have come into play in a FOOTBALL sim baffles my mind.

07-28-2003, 01:06 PM	#12
njskillz Pro OVR: 7 Join Date: Jul 2002	Re: Why have gamers let....... Quote: *ChicagoSparty said:* So, let's say a game came out, and the gameplay was excellent, but it had no season mode, let alone franchise mode. You could just play one team against another. I think that would get real old, real quick, no matter how great the gameplay was. The games are modeled after NFL football. Part of the NFL is being able to build a team, and keep a team together. The games try and represent that as well as having good play on the field. I'm very content with the mix of on-the-field, as well as off-the-field features. It's true that I favor on-the-field gameplay most, but as long as it's good, and fairly realistic, I am happy. In the online age, with leagues sprouting up left and right, if a game offered realistic graphics and gameplay, up to date rosters and player ratings, your damn right I would buy that game. I did already. It was called NFL2K3 (ok, the player ratings weren't the greatest, but I stand by everything else! LOL!) I have never and will never even click on Franchise, Crib, etc. I'm not knocking those who do but just can't see how that stuff would make or break whether someone would buy a FOOTBALL sim.

07-28-2003, 01:09 PM	#13
Graphik Prsnr#70460649 OVR: 22* Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chi-Town, Ill-State Posts: 10,559	Re: Why have gamers let....... Quote: *njskillz said:* Quote: *ChicagoSparty said:* So, let's say a game came out, and the gameplay was excellent, but it had no season mode, let alone franchise mode. You could just play one team against another. I think that would get real old, real quick, no matter how great the gameplay was. The games are modeled after NFL football. Part of the NFL is being able to build a team, and keep a team together. The games try and represent that as well as having good play on the field. I'm very content with the mix of on-the-field, as well as off-the-field features. It's true that I favor on-the-field gameplay most, but as long as it's good, and fairly realistic, I am happy. In the online age, with leagues sprouting up left and right, if a game offered realistic graphics and gameplay, up to date rosters and player ratings, your damn right I would buy that game. I did already. It was called NFL2K3 (ok, the player ratings weren't the greatest, but I stand by everything else! LOL!) I have never and will never even click on Franchise, Crib, etc. I'm not knocking those who do but just can't see how that stuff would make or break whether someone would buy a FOOTBALL sim. That just goes to the point I made earlier. Would if all the football games were in thier first year. How would you know which one to get if it only provided straight up gameplay?

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07-28-2003, 01:40 PM	#14
ChicagoSparty MVP OVR: 13 Join Date: Jun 2003	Re: Why have gamers let....... Quote: *njskillz said:* Quote: *ChicagoSparty said:* So, let's say a game came out, and the gameplay was excellent, but it had no season mode, let alone franchise mode. You could just play one team against another. I think that would get real old, real quick, no matter how great the gameplay was. The games are modeled after NFL football. Part of the NFL is being able to build a team, and keep a team together. The games try and represent that as well as having good play on the field. I'm very content with the mix of on-the-field, as well as off-the-field features. It's true that I favor on-the-field gameplay most, but as long as it's good, and fairly realistic, I am happy. In the online age, with leagues sprouting up left and right, if a game offered realistic graphics and gameplay, up to date rosters and player ratings, your damn right I would buy that game. I did already. It was called NFL2K3 (ok, the player ratings weren't the greatest, but I stand by everything else! LOL!) I have never and will never even click on Franchise, Crib, etc. I'm not knocking those who do but just can't see how that stuff would make or break whether someone would buy a FOOTBALL sim. It does for me. I, for one, have no time to be keeping up with an online league. I'd be the one that would never play the games on time, etc. It's strictly sole-player for me.

07-28-2003, 01:44 PM	#15
Graphik Prsnr#70460649 OVR: 22* Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chi-Town, Ill-State Posts: 10,559	Re: Why have gamers let....... I was just in a baseball league awhile ago and had to quit cause of schedules and all. It was cool at first but then it got to be a lil boring cause I did'nt have any stats or franchise stuff to look at. I'm sure XSN will change all that in the future. But for know, the CPU puts up a good fight.

07-28-2003, 01:52 PM	#16
njskillz Pro OVR: 7 Join Date: Jul 2002	Re: Why have gamers let....... Quote: *ChicagoSparty said:* Quote: *njskillz said:* Quote: *ChicagoSparty said:* So, let's say a game came out, and the gameplay was excellent, but it had no season mode, let alone franchise mode. You could just play one team against another. I think that would get real old, real quick, no matter how great the gameplay was. The games are modeled after NFL football. Part of the NFL is being able to build a team, and keep a team together. The games try and represent that as well as having good play on the field. I'm very content with the mix of on-the-field, as well as off-the-field features. It's true that I favor on-the-field gameplay most, but as long as it's good, and fairly realistic, I am happy. In the online age, with leagues sprouting up left and right, if a game offered realistic graphics and gameplay, up to date rosters and player ratings, your damn right I would buy that game. I did already. It was called NFL2K3 (ok, the player ratings weren't the greatest, but I stand by everything else! LOL!) I have never and will never even click on Franchise, Crib, etc. I'm not knocking those who do but just can't see how that stuff would make or break whether someone would buy a FOOTBALL sim. It does for me. I, for one, have no time to be keeping up with an online league. I'd be the one that would never play the games on time, etc. It's strictly sole-player for me. Well that is a shame. The true beauty of NFL2K3 is it's multi-player gaming experience. I can understand the time issue though. I'm sure if I sat down and figured out what I could and SHOULD be doing as opposed to playing a videogame, I would probably be in agreement with you.

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