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Danimal · 09-07-2003, 07:58 PM

I am a fan of video football and no one game in particular. I say this because I know my post will aggravate some people in this thread. I expect that since this is a thread for the game and it is comprised of 80% die hard fans.

But these are my impressions after a load of games, and a lot of slider fixing, when a friend asked if I thought ESPN was the perfect game as is being said a lot. So some of this may sound out of context, I tried to edit out a lot of the BS to my buddy.

I'd just thought I would post my impression as a 37 year old gamer who cut his teeth on Grid Iron for the Amiga and NFL for xor.

---

After you take off the rose colored glasses about how damm good the presentation is, and start to play the game you'll find plenty to get on your nerves. I base my opinion on playing about 30 games in the last 4-5 days. I still think it is the best overall football game this year, but it is not the perfect game, or best ever made as some claim. In fact on the field it has as many (if not more) glaring errors as Madden. But bottom line is it is a lot of fun, it's just so damm close to perfect that these qirks are killing me. Anyway to your points.

Perfect running game, if the CPU breaking anywhere from 2-6 tackles on every run is perfect, then I guess you're right. Hell even if you turn CPU running and Blocking to 0 and set Human Tackeling and Pursuit to 40, they still break a good amount of tackles on almost every play.

Perfect passing, Try setting Human passing and catching to 0 and play on Legacy, I'll bet if you are even competent at the game you will complete 60% of your passes.

Sliders that don't affect the game in the way they should. See the slider thread.

Player ratings, that are not implemented properly, I just watched Keith Traylor pick up a fumble and run 80 yards out distancing Owens and Hearst who were only 5 - 10 yards away when he recovered it and this is on legacy. I've consistently seen slower rated guys outrun faster rated ones in my franchise.

Have you seen a QB scramble, cross the LOS and your Defender under AI control just sit in the flat because he is watching the back? you will sooner or later.

Should we even mention penalties, I've played 30 games and had 1 false start penalty and 1 holding, and this is with holding slider boosted to 40. I won't even discuss PI as it is a joke.

If we're going to make fun of dumb features, umm hello the Crib. This is to expand the game for stupid punk *** teenagers who wouldn't know the difference between a Mike and Sam backer. It is an absolute joke of a feature, and to top it off you can't use custom sliders and hope to unlock everything.

I could go on, but what's the point.

Is it the best overall game this year?...sure is.

Does it have a multitude of problems in the gameplay area? ...sure does.

Is it better then Madden on the field?..I'd say they are even because Madden has it flaws as well. (The first time you see a LB jump backwards, while moving the opposite way, 5 yards and high into the air to make an int on a crossing route you'll throw the controller)

My advice if you're serious about your football, then rent this game. Hell even if you're not, you should rent it just to see how a presentation is suppose to be done. But make sure you play the hell out of it for 4 or 5 days, and then see if you can live with all the gameplay quirks as mentioned above.

tpe11etier · 09-07-2003, 08:08 PM

Quote:

DSpezzano said:
I could go on, but what's the point.

Exactly...

JRod · 09-07-2003, 08:09 PM

My thoughts exactly and I'll add one more.

the thing that frustrates me about ESPN, is that the flaws in this game seem easier to fix than what's wrong with Madden. Madden would almost have to change some parts of it's engine to get some of it's quirks right.

With ESPN, things like stats, penalties, sliders should have been nuked in the beta stage.

Broken tackles and passing completion well that might be a serious hassle to change. But it would be no less than some aspects of madden.

Like I said before the difference between ESPN and Madden is polish. ESPN and Sega Sports seem to leave that out. Madden puts way too much to cover up it's errors. If ESPN would have taken care of sliders, penalties and stats then this is the best football game we have. With the right sliders that would eliminate the passing problem. Broken tackles I think that's just going to have to get looked at next year. If only that was ESPN's only problem.

Once again ESPN comes so close but can't finish. I won't go as far as to say it's better than madden or say madden is better than ESPN. I think both are at the same level this year.

NYJets · 09-07-2003, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Perfect running game, if the CPU breaking anywhere from 2-6 tackles on every run is perfect, then I guess you're right. Hell even if you turn CPU running and Blocking to 0 and set Human Tackeling and Pursuit to 40, they still break a good amount of tackles on almost every play.

I really don't think broken tackles are a problem. Once I learned to stop relying on the super dive from last year, and I actuall squared up to make the hit, I don't give up many broken tackles.

Quote:

Perfect passing, Try setting Human passing and catching to 0 and play on Legacy, I'll bet if you are even competent at the game you will complete 60% of your passes.

Can you explain what your point is? I don't need to do that, because passing is already good for me, but I might have misunderstood your point.

Quote:

If we're going to make fun of dumb features, umm hello the Crib. This is to expand the game for stupid punk *** teenagers who wouldn't know the difference between a Mike and Sam backer. It is an absolute joke of a feature, and to top it off you can't use custom sliders and hope to unlock everything.

Um...then don't use it. And I assume you don't like Madden Cards either.

Those are the only points I really disagree with, the rest I either agree, or don't have a real opinion on.

Erv · 09-07-2003, 08:21 PM

Quote:

DSpezzano said:
I am a fan of video football and no one game in particular. I say this because I know my post will aggravate some people in this thread. I expect that since this is a thread for the game and it is comprised of 80% die hard fans.

But these are my impressions after a load of games, and a lot of slider fixing, when a friend asked if I thought ESPN was the perfect game as is being said a lot. So some of this may sound out of context, I tried to edit out a lot of the BS to my buddy.

I'd just thought I would post my impression as a 37 year old gamer who cut his teeth on Grid Iron for the Amiga and NFL for xor.

---

After you take off the rose colored glasses about how damm good the presentation is, and start to play the game you'll find plenty to get on your nerves. I base my opinion on playing about 30 games in the last 4-5 days. I still think it is the best overall football game this year, but it is not the perfect game, or best ever made as some claim. In fact on the field it has as many (if not more) glaring errors as Madden. But bottom line is it is a lot of fun, it's just so damm close to perfect that these qirks are killing me. Anyway to your points.

Perfect running game, if the CPU breaking anywhere from 2-6 tackles on every run is perfect, then I guess you're right. Hell even if you turn CPU running and Blocking to 0 and set Human Tackeling and Pursuit to 40, they still break a good amount of tackles on almost every play.

Charge up your guy before you tackle.

Perfect passing, Try setting Human passing and catching to 0 and play on Legacy, I'll bet if you are even competent at the game you will complete 60% of your passes.

Untrue. If you mix up your plays, run the drops like they're designed, and don't call cheese, this would not happen.

Sliders that don't affect the game in the way they should. See the slider thread.

Sega could of done more here I agree, but what's here is still sufficient enough.

Player ratings, that are not implemented properly, I just watched Keith Traylor pick up a fumble and run 80 yards out distancing Owens and Hearst who were only 5 - 10 yards away when he recovered it and this is on legacy. I've consistently seen slower rated guys outrun faster rated ones in my franchise.

thihs looks fishy, I agree on this one.

Have you seen a QB scramble, cross the LOS and your Defender under AI control just sit in the flat because he is watching the back? you will sooner or later.

this is annoying, but adaptable. If you're a db or lb this shouldn't be the case, and you should be if your facing off against a good running qb. I haven't seen this happen once with the slower qb's.

Should we even mention penalties, I've played 30 games and had 1 false start penalty and 1 holding, and this is with holding slider boosted to 40. I won't even discuss PI as it is a joke.

Yeah holding and false starts are low, but PI is handled way better than any other game out there.

If we're going to make fun of dumb features, umm hello the Crib. This is to expand the game for stupid punk *** teenagers who wouldn't know the difference between a Mike and Sam backer. It is an absolute joke of a feature, and to top it off you can't use custom sliders and hope to unlock everything.

Sooo that's YOUR take...the crib is nothing but an addition that in no way at all detracts from the game, and this is not a gameplay issue. At least it's different, it's not going to be perfect the first attempt.

I could go on, but what's the point.

Is it the best overall game this year?...sure is.

Does it have a multitude of problems in the gameplay area? ...sure does.

Is it better then Madden on the field?..I'd say they are even because Madden has it flaws as well. (The first time you see a LB jump backwards, while moving the opposite way, 5 yards and high into the air to make an int on a crossing route you'll throw the controller)

My advice if you're serious about your football, then rent this game. Hell even if you're not, you should rent it just to see how a presentation is suppose to be done. But make sure you play the hell out of it for 4 or 5 days, and then see if you can live with all the gameplay quirks as mentioned above.

blueduke · 09-07-2003, 08:28 PM

i have all my penalties maxed out and I get a fairly good number. In my last game my team (Raiders) were flagged for 2 pass interference penalties and 3 holdings. There were a face mask penalty as well to go along with a few false starts and even one ineligible receiver downfield. The CPU gets their fair share as well. I wonder sometimes if there were some discs released with flaws you mentioned before the error was fixed. Could that be possible? Hell I don't know. Wouldn't surprise me.

My main gripe is the stats are so out of whack in simmmed games (runners not getting enough touches, qb's with 65% completion pct). The games I actually play they are just fine. This game is far from "perfect", but it's very fun to play. I love playing Madden just as much however. Madden does a whole lot better handling stats but we all know there is flaws abounding in EA's offering too.

GSW · 09-07-2003, 08:38 PM

two words.

As Designed.

NoleFan · 09-07-2003, 08:39 PM

I don't even know why I read this and why I am posting now but if you play the damn game looking for problems then all you are gonna have is negative things to say about it. I have not said a negative thing about the game yet. Do you know why? Because I am not lookin for them. I have had no problems with Money FLag routes. You know why? Because I don't call plays and run them over and over LOOKING for AI deficiencies.

09-07-2003, 07:58 PM	#1
Danimal MVP OVR: 21 Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Illinois Posts: 2,206 Blog Entries: 4	My impression after about 30 games. I am a fan of video football and no one game in particular. I say this because I know my post will aggravate some people in this thread. I expect that since this is a thread for the game and it is comprised of 80% die hard fans. But these are my impressions after a load of games, and a lot of slider fixing, when a friend asked if I thought ESPN was the perfect game as is being said a lot. So some of this may sound out of context, I tried to edit out a lot of the BS to my buddy. I'd just thought I would post my impression as a 37 year old gamer who cut his teeth on Grid Iron for the Amiga and NFL for xor. --- After you take off the rose colored glasses about how damm good the presentation is, and start to play the game you'll find plenty to get on your nerves. I base my opinion on playing about 30 games in the last 4-5 days. I still think it is the best overall football game this year, but it is not the perfect game, or best ever made as some claim. In fact on the field it has as many (if not more) glaring errors as Madden. But bottom line is it is a lot of fun, it's just so damm close to perfect that these qirks are killing me. Anyway to your points. Perfect running game, if the CPU breaking anywhere from 2-6 tackles on every run is perfect, then I guess you're right. Hell even if you turn CPU running and Blocking to 0 and set Human Tackeling and Pursuit to 40, they still break a good amount of tackles on almost every play. Perfect passing, Try setting Human passing and catching to 0 and play on Legacy, I'll bet if you are even competent at the game you will complete 60% of your passes. Sliders that don't affect the game in the way they should. See the slider thread. Player ratings, that are not implemented properly, I just watched Keith Traylor pick up a fumble and run 80 yards out distancing Owens and Hearst who were only 5 - 10 yards away when he recovered it and this is on legacy. I've consistently seen slower rated guys outrun faster rated ones in my franchise. Have you seen a QB scramble, cross the LOS and your Defender under AI control just sit in the flat because he is watching the back? you will sooner or later. Should we even mention penalties, I've played 30 games and had 1 false start penalty and 1 holding, and this is with holding slider boosted to 40. I won't even discuss PI as it is a joke. If we're going to make fun of dumb features, umm hello the Crib. This is to expand the game for stupid punk *** teenagers who wouldn't know the difference between a Mike and Sam backer. It is an absolute joke of a feature, and to top it off you can't use custom sliders and hope to unlock everything. I could go on, but what's the point. Is it the best overall game this year?...sure is. Does it have a multitude of problems in the gameplay area? ...sure does. Is it better then Madden on the field?..I'd say they are even because Madden has it flaws as well. (The first time you see a LB jump backwards, while moving the opposite way, 5 yards and high into the air to make an int on a crossing route you'll throw the controller) My advice if you're serious about your football, then rent this game. Hell even if you're not, you should rent it just to see how a presentation is suppose to be done. But make sure you play the hell out of it for 4 or 5 days, and then see if you can live with all the gameplay quirks as mentioned above.

09-07-2003, 08:08 PM	#2
tpe11etier Rookie OVR: 1 Join Date: Sep 2003	Re: My impression after about 30 games. Quote: *DSpezzano said:* I could go on, but what's the point. Exactly...

09-07-2003, 08:09 PM	#3
JRod MVP OVR: 17 Join Date: Jul 2002	Re: My impression after about 30 games. My thoughts exactly and I'll add one more. the thing that frustrates me about ESPN, is that the flaws in this game seem easier to fix than what's wrong with Madden. Madden would almost have to change some parts of it's engine to get some of it's quirks right. With ESPN, things like stats, penalties, sliders should have been nuked in the beta stage. Broken tackles and passing completion well that might be a serious hassle to change. But it would be no less than some aspects of madden. Like I said before the difference between ESPN and Madden is polish. ESPN and Sega Sports seem to leave that out. Madden puts way too much to cover up it's errors. If ESPN would have taken care of sliders, penalties and stats then this is the best football game we have. With the right sliders that would eliminate the passing problem. Broken tackles I think that's just going to have to get looked at next year. If only that was ESPN's only problem. Once again ESPN comes so close but can't finish. I won't go as far as to say it's better than madden or say madden is better than ESPN. I think both are at the same level this year.

09-07-2003, 08:15 PM	#4
NYJets Hall Of Fame OVR: 26 Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 18,650	Re: My impression after about 30 games. Quote: Perfect running game, if the CPU breaking anywhere from 2-6 tackles on every run is perfect, then I guess you're right. Hell even if you turn CPU running and Blocking to 0 and set Human Tackeling and Pursuit to 40, they still break a good amount of tackles on almost every play. I really don't think broken tackles are a problem. Once I learned to stop relying on the super dive from last year, and I actuall squared up to make the hit, I don't give up many broken tackles. Quote: Perfect passing, Try setting Human passing and catching to 0 and play on Legacy, I'll bet if you are even competent at the game you will complete 60% of your passes. Can you explain what your point is? I don't need to do that, because passing is already good for me, but I might have misunderstood your point. Quote: If we're going to make fun of dumb features, umm hello the Crib. This is to expand the game for stupid punk *** teenagers who wouldn't know the difference between a Mike and Sam backer. It is an absolute joke of a feature, and to top it off you can't use custom sliders and hope to unlock everything. Um...then don't use it. And I assume you don't like Madden Cards either. Those are the only points I really disagree with, the rest I either agree, or don't have a real opinion on.

09-07-2003, 08:21 PM	#5
Erv MVP OVR: 10 Join Date: Jul 2002	Re: My impression after about 30 games. Quote: *DSpezzano said:* I am a fan of video football and no one game in particular. I say this because I know my post will aggravate some people in this thread. I expect that since this is a thread for the game and it is comprised of 80% die hard fans. But these are my impressions after a load of games, and a lot of slider fixing, when a friend asked if I thought ESPN was the perfect game as is being said a lot. So some of this may sound out of context, I tried to edit out a lot of the BS to my buddy. I'd just thought I would post my impression as a 37 year old gamer who cut his teeth on Grid Iron for the Amiga and NFL for xor. --- After you take off the rose colored glasses about how damm good the presentation is, and start to play the game you'll find plenty to get on your nerves. I base my opinion on playing about 30 games in the last 4-5 days. I still think it is the best overall football game this year, but it is not the perfect game, or best ever made as some claim. In fact on the field it has as many (if not more) glaring errors as Madden. But bottom line is it is a lot of fun, it's just so damm close to perfect that these qirks are killing me. Anyway to your points. Perfect running game, if the CPU breaking anywhere from 2-6 tackles on every run is perfect, then I guess you're right. Hell even if you turn CPU running and Blocking to 0 and set Human Tackeling and Pursuit to 40, they still break a good amount of tackles on almost every play. Charge up your guy before you tackle. Perfect passing, Try setting Human passing and catching to 0 and play on Legacy, I'll bet if you are even competent at the game you will complete 60% of your passes. Untrue. If you mix up your plays, run the drops like they're designed, and don't call cheese, this would not happen. Sliders that don't affect the game in the way they should. See the slider thread. Sega could of done more here I agree, but what's here is still sufficient enough. Player ratings, that are not implemented properly, I just watched Keith Traylor pick up a fumble and run 80 yards out distancing Owens and Hearst who were only 5 - 10 yards away when he recovered it and this is on legacy. I've consistently seen slower rated guys outrun faster rated ones in my franchise. thihs looks fishy, I agree on this one. Have you seen a QB scramble, cross the LOS and your Defender under AI control just sit in the flat because he is watching the back? you will sooner or later. this is annoying, but adaptable. If you're a db or lb this shouldn't be the case, and you should be if your facing off against a good running qb. I haven't seen this happen once with the slower qb's. Should we even mention penalties, I've played 30 games and had 1 false start penalty and 1 holding, and this is with holding slider boosted to 40. I won't even discuss PI as it is a joke. Yeah holding and false starts are low, but PI is handled way better than any other game out there. If we're going to make fun of dumb features, umm hello the Crib. This is to expand the game for stupid punk *** teenagers who wouldn't know the difference between a Mike and Sam backer. It is an absolute joke of a feature, and to top it off you can't use custom sliders and hope to unlock everything. Sooo that's YOUR take...the crib is nothing but an addition that in no way at all detracts from the game, and this is not a gameplay issue. At least it's different, it's not going to be perfect the first attempt. I could go on, but what's the point. Is it the best overall game this year?...sure is. Does it have a multitude of problems in the gameplay area? ...sure does. Is it better then Madden on the field?..I'd say they are even because Madden has it flaws as well. (The first time you see a LB jump backwards, while moving the opposite way, 5 yards and high into the air to make an int on a crossing route you'll throw the controller) My advice if you're serious about your football, then rent this game. Hell even if you're not, you should rent it just to see how a presentation is suppose to be done. But make sure you play the hell out of it for 4 or 5 days, and then see if you can live with all the gameplay quirks as mentioned above.

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09-07-2003, 08:28 PM	#6
blueduke Pro OVR: 7 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North Carolina	Re: My impression after about 30 games. i have all my penalties maxed out and I get a fairly good number. In my last game my team (Raiders) were flagged for 2 pass interference penalties and 3 holdings. There were a face mask penalty as well to go along with a few false starts and even one ineligible receiver downfield. The CPU gets their fair share as well. I wonder sometimes if there were some discs released with flaws you mentioned before the error was fixed. Could that be possible? Hell I don't know. Wouldn't surprise me. My main gripe is the stats are so out of whack in simmmed games (runners not getting enough touches, qb's with 65% completion pct). The games I actually play they are just fine. This game is far from "perfect", but it's very fun to play. I love playing Madden just as much however. Madden does a whole lot better handling stats but we all know there is flaws abounding in EA's offering too.

09-07-2003, 08:38 PM	#7
GSW Simnation OVR: 40 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 8,041	Re: My impression after about 30 games. two words. As Designed.

09-07-2003, 08:39 PM	#8
NoleFan Hall Of Fame OVR: 22 Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 12,374	Re: My impression after about 30 games. I don't even know why I read this and why I am posting now but if you play the damn game looking for problems then all you are gonna have is negative things to say about it. I have not said a negative thing about the game yet. Do you know why? Because I am not lookin for them. I have had no problems with Money FLag routes. You know why? Because I don't call plays and run them over and over LOOKING for AI deficiencies.

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My impression after about 30 games.