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Tears2040 · 09-15-2003, 03:40 PM

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fossen said:

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Tears2040 said:

Quote:

fossen said:

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Tears2040 said:
What they need to do is have a charge system for the defensive players, then it will balance everything.

Ummmm .... they did. Defensive players can be charged.

, So you're trying to tell me that a defender trying to tackle a ball carrier has the same amount of "Charge Moves"?

Maybe I'm missing something ... but if you are tackling, how many charge moves do you need? If you want to tackle, does any other move except "tackle" even matter?

But any defensive move can be charged.... including "tackle".

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If I charge up a defender all it does is slow him down

Charging up a ballcarrier slows him down as well. That's the tradeoff. That's the balance - you are sacrificing speed for power.

Quote:

+ please quote the rest of my post to keep my message in contex.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I prefer to quote only the part of the message that I am responding to. I started off in ye olde USENET, where it was extrememly poor form to quote tons of text. All excessive quoting does is clutter up the forum ... people can see your original context by quickly looking up.

, Ok.

The problem man y gamers are having in any way is still sme of the backs are very powerfulk in this game.

I have been lucky for the most part, but many other gamers pay a brutal price for just missing one tackle in this game.

My question I now ask to you is, do you feel the runner has an advantage over the defense?

Also if I charge up a ball carrier I can link moves to avoid defenders, how can I link defender moves to stop theball carrier?

, peace

bkrich83 · 09-15-2003, 03:44 PM

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mvb34 said:

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Cardot said:

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wco81 said:
It's funny saying this after Jamal Lewis set an NFL record but he didn't have to break many tackles.

You must have seen different hilights than I did. I seem to recall him breaking several tackles.

No he didn't have to break many tackles!!!

He broke a ton of tackles. I saw on one of the highlight shows on one of his runs they counted 7 broken tackles, then 4 on another, not to mention the wicked *** stiff arm he threw on the 82 yd run. I watched a good portion of the game, and he was running through people left and right. I never noticed he had a stiff arm like that before either.

He broke a lot of tackles, you don't run against a 9 man front for 297 yards with out running through a ton of tackles.

wwharton · 09-15-2003, 04:22 PM

Ok, I figured this would die quickly but I guess I'll jump in.

First of all, Jamal broke plenty of tackles before heading in out in the straight away, pretty much JUST LIKE THE GAME. I'm not the type to say "See, you can run for 300 yards in real life." so that's not my point. I specifically watched games yesterday to see how tackles were handled. As I suspected runs up the middle for the most part needed gang tackles to bring the back down in EVERY GAME. Sweeps and tosses could be taken down by one defender if the momentum was going east/west. The only thing I don't see properly addressed in the game is that DBs being smaller usually dive at runners legs to tackle them where this isn't possible in the game. Instead the smaller players go high and get shrugged off.

As for the charge, as mentioned you can charge up on D (and Graphik, you even said you love doing it) so you must notice that a charged D player if good (ratings do matter) will bring down a charged RB (depending on ratings again) if he hits him square. Urlacher and Brooks not coming square will screw up on tackles too against the better backs. The thing is their fundamentals are pretty damn good so they usually hit the backs at the right angles.

The charge works perfectly. If neither player charges then it's left to angle of pursuit and player ratings. If both have time to charge then again it's angle of pursuit and ratings. If one does and the other doesn't then there's a better chance that the one that does will win.

Why is this realistic? Lets go back to Jamal. If you don't think he was running harder than normal you're crazy. And he goes hard every time he steps on the field but yesterday he put extra effort in EVERY play. Most players put extra effort in during certain situations. This is that extra effort. I've seen RBs see a safety approaching and they'll slow up a bit and then lower the shoulder and pop the hell out of them. Same with LBs chasing down a back. It's also the difference between a kick returner doing quick jukes in traffic versus the big juke he'd put on a man that is the only person he has in front of him with time to set him up.

I don't know why this is still a discussion, especially one to claim to be the reason why people are running too easy in the game. I promise that if any of you charge every time you run then you won't be getting too many rushing yards on me so you shouldn't be seeing the problem anyway.

JayBee74 · 09-15-2003, 04:45 PM

No matter where you stand on the "charge system" if there was an option to turn it off the majority would turn it off.I'm not sure how effective it is on defense. It's getting in position to use it that's key. On defense the speed burst can make you overpursue a lot, so maybe more gamers should try the power charge on defense-the speed burst trade off means less than it does on offense.

JayBee74 · 09-15-2003, 04:48 PM

Check out "The Guide To Better Defense" sticky up top. It will give you some indispensable tips.

bkrich83 · 09-15-2003, 04:57 PM

I have been pretty succesful against the run, especially considering I play as the Chargers. I still give up the big game to the good backs occasionally, but I make them work for it. I also have had some good games against them.

The keys for me are to maintain contain, to play with in the structure of the defense I call, gang tackle as best I can, and make good use of the dline play calls.

If your controlling a player and are going to try to make a big play and overpursue the play or allow the runner to take advantage of what your doing, then be prepared to give up a big run.

Contain and playing within the defense are the two most difficult things to do, but they are the most effective counters to strong running games.

Kanobi · 09-15-2003, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Tears2040 said:
What they need to do is have a charge system for the defensive players, then it will balance everything.

They do.

NoleFan · 09-15-2003, 05:17 PM

Quote:

bkrich83 said:
The keys for me are to maintain contain, to play with in the structure of the defense I call

When you say play within the structure of the defense you are referring to doing what each player is supposed to do in the play right?

09-15-2003, 03:40 PM	#17
Tears2040 Banned OVR: 4 Join Date: May 2003	Re: \" charge up system\" is the culprit for games shortcomings Quote: *fossen said:* Quote: *Tears2040 said:* Quote: *fossen said:* Quote: *Tears2040 said:* What they need to do is have a charge system for the defensive players, then it will balance everything. Ummmm .... they did. Defensive players can be charged. , So you're trying to tell me that a defender trying to tackle a ball carrier has the same amount of "Charge Moves"? Maybe I'm missing something ... but if you are tackling, how many charge moves do you need? If you want to tackle, does any other move except "tackle" even matter? But any defensive move can be charged.... including "tackle". Quote: If I charge up a defender all it does is slow him down Charging up a ballcarrier slows him down as well. That's the tradeoff. That's the balance - you are sacrificing speed for power. Quote: + please quote the rest of my post to keep my message in contex. Thanks for the suggestion, but I prefer to quote only the part of the message that I am responding to. I started off in ye olde USENET, where it was extrememly poor form to quote tons of text. All excessive quoting does is clutter up the forum ... people can see your original context by quickly looking up. , Ok. The problem man y gamers are having in any way is still sme of the backs are very powerfulk in this game. I have been lucky for the most part, but many other gamers pay a brutal price for just missing one tackle in this game. My question I now ask to you is, do you feel the runner has an advantage over the defense? Also if I charge up a ball carrier I can link moves to avoid defenders, how can I link defender moves to stop theball carrier? , peace

09-15-2003, 03:44 PM	#18
bkrich83 Need A Life OVR: 64 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: So. Cal Posts: 70,882 Blog Entries: 125	Re: \" charge up system\" is the culprit for games shortcomings Quote: *mvb34 said:* Quote: *Cardot said:* Quote: *wco81 said:* It's funny saying this after Jamal Lewis set an NFL record but he didn't have to break many tackles. You must have seen different hilights than I did. I seem to recall him breaking several tackles. No he didn't have to break many tackles!!! He broke a ton of tackles. I saw on one of the highlight shows on one of his runs they counted 7 broken tackles, then 4 on another, not to mention the wicked *** stiff arm he threw on the 82 yd run. I watched a good portion of the game, and he was running through people left and right. I never noticed he had a stiff arm like that before either. He broke a lot of tackles, you don't run against a 9 man front for 297 yards with out running through a ton of tackles.

09-15-2003, 04:22 PM	#19
wwharton ll Str OVR: 28 Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 26,978	Re: \" charge up system\" is the culprit for games shortcomings Ok, I figured this would die quickly but I guess I'll jump in. First of all, Jamal broke plenty of tackles before heading in out in the straight away, pretty much JUST LIKE THE GAME. I'm not the type to say "See, you can run for 300 yards in real life." so that's not my point. I specifically watched games yesterday to see how tackles were handled. As I suspected runs up the middle for the most part needed gang tackles to bring the back down in EVERY GAME. Sweeps and tosses could be taken down by one defender if the momentum was going east/west. The only thing I don't see properly addressed in the game is that DBs being smaller usually dive at runners legs to tackle them where this isn't possible in the game. Instead the smaller players go high and get shrugged off. As for the charge, as mentioned you can charge up on D (and Graphik, you even said you love doing it) so you must notice that a charged D player if good (ratings do matter) will bring down a charged RB (depending on ratings again) if he hits him square. Urlacher and Brooks not coming square will screw up on tackles too against the better backs. The thing is their fundamentals are pretty damn good so they usually hit the backs at the right angles. The charge works perfectly. If neither player charges then it's left to angle of pursuit and player ratings. If both have time to charge then again it's angle of pursuit and ratings. If one does and the other doesn't then there's a better chance that the one that does will win. Why is this realistic? Lets go back to Jamal. If you don't think he was running harder than normal you're crazy. And he goes hard every time he steps on the field but yesterday he put extra effort in EVERY play. Most players put extra effort in during certain situations. This is that extra effort. I've seen RBs see a safety approaching and they'll slow up a bit and then lower the shoulder and pop the hell out of them. Same with LBs chasing down a back. It's also the difference between a kick returner doing quick jukes in traffic versus the big juke he'd put on a man that is the only person he has in front of him with time to set him up. I don't know why this is still a discussion, especially one to claim to be the reason why people are running too easy in the game. I promise that if any of you charge every time you run then you won't be getting too many rushing yards on me so you shouldn't be seeing the problem anyway.

09-15-2003, 04:45 PM	#20
JayBee74 Hall Of Fame OVR: 36 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Gretna, Louisiana Posts: 23,004	Re: \" charge up system\" is the culprit for games shortcomings No matter where you stand on the "charge system" if there was an option to turn it off the majority would turn it off.I'm not sure how effective it is on defense. It's getting in position to use it that's key. On defense the speed burst can make you overpursue a lot, so maybe more gamers should try the power charge on defense-the speed burst trade off means less than it does on offense.

09-15-2003, 04:48 PM	#21
JayBee74 Hall Of Fame OVR: 36 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Gretna, Louisiana Posts: 23,004	Re: \" charge up system\" is the culprit for games shortcomings Check out "The Guide To Better Defense" sticky up top. It will give you some indispensable tips.

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09-15-2003, 04:57 PM	#22
bkrich83 Need A Life OVR: 64 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: So. Cal Posts: 70,882 Blog Entries: 125	Re: \" charge up system\" is the culprit for games shortcomings I have been pretty succesful against the run, especially considering I play as the Chargers. I still give up the big game to the good backs occasionally, but I make them work for it. I also have had some good games against them. The keys for me are to maintain contain, to play with in the structure of the defense I call, gang tackle as best I can, and make good use of the dline play calls. If your controlling a player and are going to try to make a big play and overpursue the play or allow the runner to take advantage of what your doing, then be prepared to give up a big run. Contain and playing within the defense are the two most difficult things to do, but they are the most effective counters to strong running games.

09-15-2003, 05:01 PM	#23
Kanobi HF Clss f '09 OVR: 14* Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 5,980 Blog Entries: 17	Re: \" charge up system\" is the culprit for games shortcomings Quote: *Tears2040 said:* What they need to do is have a charge system for the defensive players, then it will balance everything. They do.

09-15-2003, 05:17 PM	#24
NoleFan Hall Of Fame OVR: 22 Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 12,374	Re: \" charge up system\" is the culprit for games shortcomings Quote: *bkrich83 said:* The keys for me are to maintain contain, to play with in the structure of the defense I call When you say play within the structure of the defense you are referring to doing what each player is supposed to do in the play right?

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