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Old 09-28-2003, 09:39 PM   #25
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Re: \"Realism\"

Quote:

dork88 said:
I thought this was a "forum" for "discussion" of the game. That's what I'm doing, discussing it, in a negative sense yes. So if you don't like what I'm saying why don't YOU piss off instead of telling me what i should do with the game. You self-appointed "message board police" are such fags.




stop ing

you said you were tired of espnfl and didn't want to go back to Madden. I suggested you try gameday or Fever since that was the case.And since it seems you're not having fun with espnfl you should return it or trade it in, man. Either that or stop playing it.

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Old 09-28-2003, 10:11 PM   #26
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Re: \"Realism\"

I know the feeling Dork. I was a long time Madden fan until this year. I went out and bought ESPN because Madden IMO is a poor game this year. Shootout after shootout because of poor defensive AI got old quick. Not to mention that it feels almost the same as last years version. I had to get something different. But ESPN has too many flaws also. You've pretty much covered the majority of the problems in your post. Slider adjustments doesn't solve the problems either. You're either cheating yourself or cheating the CPU when you make slider adjustments from what the developers intended.

Oh well there's always next year

(**Remembers that's the exact same thing I said last year**)
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Old 09-28-2003, 10:25 PM   #27
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Re: \"Realism\"

Quote:

Davel23 said:
Oh well there's always next year

(**Remembers that's the exact same thing I said last year**)




and you'll say that again next year and the year after that ..and the year after that!

Why?

Because the game will never be perfect. However, this year's version of NFL2k is a HUGE improvement over last year and has resulted in what IMO is the most realistic football video game available. Yes it has its faults but nothing that even remotely renders it unplayable.
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Old 09-28-2003, 11:49 PM   #28
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Re: \"Realism\"

Seems like some of the hard core Madden guys still don't see the light yet. It's a shame, really, they're missing out on one helluva game in ESPN. Best footbal game that me and a lot of other guys on this forum have ever played, and I can't wait until next year's game.

Just remember guys, if you go looking for flaws, you can find them in every game out there. I don't have a problem with broken tackles, or most of the other things mentioned in this thread, but I do have my own list of things that I'd like to see changed/improved. Maybe OS should have an official complaint thread for Madden guys who are looking for reasons to keep from liking the game.
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Old 09-29-2003, 12:21 AM   #29
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Re: \"Realism\"

Don't you think I want to come to this site and say "this is the best game ever"? that is why i went out and bought it. but after comparing the two main games out there I have found flaws in both. I have found these in 3 days. now if I could find these in 3 days how can a tester not find them? now if i did not play one or the other I would not know the running sucks in ESPN. I would also not know that MLBs in Madden can jumb 5 feet in the air to make a pick. But I love video football games and would love to have a combo of both. the point is that I tried both and made my OWN OPINION. I think that most sega guys never even try madden. if they did they would also say the running sucks in espn. it is a great game and i really don't know which one i will play going forward. I love passing but hate running.

also, to answer another thread there are no history stats for pro bowls, round taken etc. also, no stats for offsensive line????
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Old 09-29-2003, 01:22 AM   #30
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Re: \"Realism\"

Thanks Dano. I don't see why people get so mad when someone else takes an honest look at the game. I'm starting to think that these game companies keep recycling "problems" so they can keep us on the hook for next year. For instance, weren't super running backs a problem with this game like 2 years ago? So they fix them and break something else. Two years later, they re-introduce the problem so they can fix it next year, but next year they'll take away sacks again.

That being said, I haven't seen Madden fix anything in about four years.

I can just see the "features" list for next years game:

1) Players no longer run like they have a dirty diaper on.

2) The crib will now work for people who like to play 10 minute quarters.

3) Your team tackles!

4) The CPU will pass more than five yards at a time.

5) Your lead blocker will no longer turn around and kick you in the shin instead of blocking that incoming linebacker.

6) We've cut the number of files that you have to load up when you start to twelve.

7) We've taken away sacks this year. Sorry, but we ran out of time. Next year people.
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Old 09-29-2003, 01:40 AM   #31
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Re: \"Realism\"

Quote:

Davel23 said:
Slider adjustments doesn't solve the problems either. You're either cheating yourself or cheating the CPU when you make slider adjustments from what the developers intended.

Oh well there's always next year

(**Remembers that's the exact same thing I said last year**)




Cheating one side or the other from what the developers intended?

I think the one drawback now in the 'slider age' is that developers don't take the time to "intend" anything. They save time and money by letting users discover the proper settings instead of doing it in-house through thorough playtesting.

Therefore, unfortunately, just playing on default instead of finetuning the game personally is just cheating yourself, the consumer. You're settling for an inferior experience.
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Old 09-29-2003, 09:14 AM   #32
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Re: \"Realism\"

Quote:

dano said:
I think that most sega guys never even try madden. if they did they would also say the running sucks in espn.




Thats total and complete B.S.

I've played Madden 2004 extensively before espn was released. And I've played every version of Madden exclusively prior to that. Thats how I know ESPN's running game is more realistic and Does NOT suck. The problem most Madden fans seem to have is that they can't rely on just any defensive play or a simple press of the dive button to stop the run anymore. Its a Huge wakeup call after playing Madden for so long and using Pass defense to stop runs and dropping 250 lb backs my merely brushing up against them with 170 lb defensive backs. And if you're saying Madden's momentum is better then that is again total B.S. First of all, Madden players have to stop completely, stand up straight, then turn ...just to change direction. Thats total Garbage. The Momentum is seriously Overdone and control you have over the runner is lacking. Madden Ballers make the transition to ESPN from Madden and aren't accustomed to the extremely tight control and ability to change direction because they've been dealing with Madden's overblown, "Steering a Yacht in a Harbor", momentum for so long. ESPN definitely has momentum and to say the running game sucks is ridiculous.

First of all, in Madden you can only spin, juke, dive, stiff arm, hurdle or burst but have little control. Plus you can't control when you dip your shoulder which leaves your 250 lb rb at the mercy of the animation engine when facing a 170 lb db...and usually the db wins. Theres also no real on-field difference in Madden between Power, Balance, Finesse Backs. Total lack of depth. On top of that the collision detection is total garbage as the rBs can go down without even being tackled at all. A mere BUMP against them usually is enough to bring them down. This negates the need to use proper tacking technique and positioning. It certainly negates the need for gangtackling (an essential part of real-life football at all levels)...not that Madden has real gangtackling anyways since it lacks the groundbreaking PILE-ON gangtackling that ESPNFL features. And Hell even if you ARE lucky enough to pull off a gangtackle...there are No stats To track It OR Half sacks either ..like ESPNFL has.

ESPNFL offers stiff arm, hurdle, shoulder charge, spin , jukes (with shoulder buttons AND right analog stick), dive (with the player reaching for the first dwn or touchdown depending on the situation. sweet!), over the pile dive, speed burst, AND the Charge! Plus , in espn, when spinning...you control which direction you spin by using the left analog. In Madden when you spin, you're again at the mecry of the animations engine to determine in which direction you spin....again , ESPN has much tighter control. You never feel like you're not in control of the runner in ESPN. The Runningbacks have different running styles (Power, Finesses, and Balance) that are clearly visible during gameplay. This forces the user to THINK about what plays they call, how they position their personel, and who their personel are in terms of their attributes.

Also, ESPN offers PILE-ON gangtackling that is there FOR A REASON. Its meant to Be Used! You're not going to stop the run with nickel and dime packges like you do in Madden. You're not going to bring down runners with a mere brush against their shoulders like in Madden. You've got to CONTAIN the run by calling the proper formations/plays, putting guys in the right postion, using the charge as well as the proper angle and squaring up (using the strafe button) when making a tackle, and ultimately using the Gangtackling to HELP bring ballcarriers down. BTW Gangtackling and Half sacks are Tracked statistically...something Madden fans can expect NEXT YEAR even though Strauser is on record as saying they didn't add it this year because its all subjective who got there first. Yet somehow VC was able to program the AI to know who got to the ball carrier first and who assisted on the tackle. I wonder what Strauser's excuse will be next year.

So you see, Dano, I've played Madden and ESPN both...thats why I know ESPN's running game DOES NOT SUCK and is far more realistic and deep than Madden's.
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