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jmood88 · 09-30-2003, 07:42 PM

Quote:

dork88 said:
It is a good game. It's the best one this year. But it's still not good enough. There are issues that kill it. You can only have so much fun with it before the predictability of each game just makes you bored. Most annoying is that these issues have existed since a few years ago.

And for once and for all would they finally put some sensible button configurations for the wide receivers? Why the heck is the guy lined up wide right assigned to the left trigger? He should always be B. Triggers should be used for throwing to the running backs. Case closed. Again, they they've had years to change this and they don't and then they wonder why the game doesn't sell too well.

I'm thinking of trying one of those text based football sims for the pc this year, like Front Office Football. Anyone get one of those this year?

Why should the running backs be the triggers? Why is it such a big problem for you that you just can't use the button? What's the point of them changing it?

dork88 · 09-30-2003, 08:14 PM

The triggers just make more sense. And I never called anyone a fag. I said that people that patrol this board and try to censor people like me, who are just airing some beefs, are fags. For one person to take offense to that means they admit that that they're one of those "I'll tell you what you can or can't say" people. Regardless, I apologize.

And there's no need to tell me some of the things i've complained about "aren't true". Can you tell me which specific thing? Cause I'll tell you how or when exactly it happened. And I don't need to practice more, I've put a ton of time into it already.

jmood88 · 09-30-2003, 08:23 PM

The triggers don't make more sense. It's been the same since the beginning and most people are used to it. Why should they change it?

coogrfan · 09-30-2003, 10:08 PM

Quote:

jmood88 said:
The triggers don't make more sense. It's been the same since the beginning and most people are used to it. Why should they change it?

The short answer is that assigning a left side button to a reciever on the right side of the screen(or vice-versa) is counter-intuitive. This is the sort of thing that frustrates new players(especially if your used to Madden's more logical system of changing icon assignments, i.e. regardless of whether a play has been flipped or not the left wr is always square[ps2], right is always circle, etc.). This is precisely the sort of thing that can cause new players to become frustrated and go back to Madden. Imo, Sega should strongly consider changing this in next years game.

mustardman · 09-30-2003, 11:39 PM

Quote:

dork88 said:
No need to call me a troll, I'm entitled to criticize this game where it deserves it. It's not about "learning" how to play defense either. There's no denying that the shed tackles by the CPU is a problem, not a by-product of poor defense by the user. It's also clear that the AI is poor, as evident by the fact that your own plays that are called for you are the same for every kind of situation.

Can anyone explain why the CPU never takes a shot downfield on a second and one and instead ALWAYS lines up in a two TE set with one receiver? Every game is the same and every team plays the same. It's like anti-Madden, they run too much and hardly pass, and when they do pass it's never to an open man, unless I play one of the awful zone coverages that are in the game. The CPU only completes passes by throwing to a receiver that you have covered, and your DB does some sort of "going for the ball" thing, and wham, the receiver is open now. I won't even get into how on every single running play I ever run, my leading fullback all of a sudden runs backwards, trips me up, and leaves me ripe for being plastered by a linebacker. Anyone who says they've never seen this is blind or a liar.

I think there is one reason and one reason alone for the broken tackle issue, it was placed in the game because it is the only way for the CPU to gain any yards. Period. If anyone has seen any smart playcalling by the CPU or disagrees with my assessment of the situational playcalling as a whole, feel free to say so.

I'm just venting some frustration and wanted to see if anyone else felt the same way and if they fixed it for themselves at all. Naturally, there's always some idiot who wants to call people names.

I'm in total agreement with you. My only support of VC in this argument has to be that designing and implementing AI at any level of any game is incredibly difficult, ESPECIALLY when you're talking about a sports game. If you don't have a game that has a story, you better have a game that has AI.

I really know very little about footbally. I'm more a baseball and basketball junkie. I will say, however, that even I have noticed the repeition in this game, how the computer is way too predictable on whether it is going to run or pass. I also remember that I have only started playing defense (I'm a "coach only" type of player against the computer, but I play with the guys when playing my wife) when I learned about the Bear package and have been using it a lot and also using "coach's pick" plays (which I don't think should be in the game except if you're playing on the easiest level).

I're not a very good runner in this game. However, I will say that I learned that if you zig zag, the AI doesn't react quickly enough (Imagine what would happen if I learned how to do the "charge"). Conversely, the AI seems to cheat when you are near the endzone. All of a sudden, my interceptions (well, my QB's, after I pick the play in coach mode) seem to be much more frequent once I hit the redzone.

Finally, it would be so nice to see two things I haven't seen yet (in probably 10-15 games):

(1) see some hail mary passes by the opponent

(2) see those other penalties that are NEVER called (can't recall them at the moment).

Otherwise, I'll go with someone's opinion that I saw not long after the game came out: this is a GREAT multi-player game, but OK as a sim and single player game.

wwharton · 10-01-2003, 12:29 AM

Quote:

dork88 said:
The triggers just make more sense. And I never called anyone a fag. I said that people that patrol this board and try to censor people like me, who are just airing some beefs, are fags. For one person to take offense to that means they admit that that they're one of those "I'll tell you what you can or can't say" people. Regardless, I apologize.

And there's no need to tell me some of the things i've complained about "aren't true". Can you tell me which specific thing? Cause I'll tell you how or when exactly it happened. And I don't need to practice more, I've put a ton of time into it already.

Oh I see the use of derogatory slang for homosexual is ok when directed at a certain group of people. I apologize for not realizing that those were the ones you were talking about.

If you'd like to classify me as one of "those" so be it. To be honest, I'm just an african american that always takes offense to unnecessary use of words like "fag" as insults, especially on a message board that one can hide behind. I can silently sit and

when I know it comes from a teenager but from a 30 year old man is just sad. I have little desire to discuss anything with you consider I have very little respect for someone OUR age that falls to that level. Sorry.

chelios7 · 10-01-2003, 07:49 AM

Quote:

dork88 said:
The triggers just make more sense. And I never called anyone a fag. I said that people that patrol this board and try to censor people like me, who are just airing some beefs, are fags. For one person to take offense to that means they admit that that they're one of those "I'll tell you what you can or can't say" people. Regardless, I apologize.

And there's no need to tell me some of the things i've complained about "aren't true". Can you tell me which specific thing? Cause I'll tell you how or when exactly it happened. And I don't need to practice more, I've put a ton of time into it already.

Even on an internet discussion board, that is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read.

"People that tell me what to do are fags." Is that your actual thoughts on this?

Why not call them Nazis, or big brother, or the thought police? At least those would have some actual meaning. But calling people fags?

You must be very insecure.

bkrich83 · 10-01-2003, 12:10 PM

Apparently Dork thinks he has a constitutional right to post here, and post whatever he wants here.

09-30-2003, 07:42 PM	#57
jmood88 Sean Payton: Retribution OVR: 40 Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 34,640 Blog Entries: 1	Re: \"Realism\" Quote: *dork88 said:* It is a good game. It's the best one this year. But it's still not good enough. There are issues that kill it. You can only have so much fun with it before the predictability of each game just makes you bored. Most annoying is that these issues have existed since a few years ago. And for once and for all would they finally put some sensible button configurations for the wide receivers? Why the heck is the guy lined up wide right assigned to the left trigger? He should always be B. Triggers should be used for throwing to the running backs. Case closed. Again, they they've had years to change this and they don't and then they wonder why the game doesn't sell too well. I'm thinking of trying one of those text based football sims for the pc this year, like Front Office Football. Anyone get one of those this year? Why should the running backs be the triggers? Why is it such a big problem for you that you just can't use the button? What's the point of them changing it?

09-30-2003, 08:14 PM	#58
dork88 Rookie OVR: 2 Join Date: Aug 2003	Re: \"Realism\" The triggers just make more sense. And I never called anyone a fag. I said that people that patrol this board and try to censor people like me, who are just airing some beefs, are fags. For one person to take offense to that means they admit that that they're one of those "I'll tell you what you can or can't say" people. Regardless, I apologize. And there's no need to tell me some of the things i've complained about "aren't true". Can you tell me which specific thing? Cause I'll tell you how or when exactly it happened. And I don't need to practice more, I've put a ton of time into it already.

09-30-2003, 08:23 PM	#59
jmood88 Sean Payton: Retribution OVR: 40 Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 34,640 Blog Entries: 1	Re: \"Realism\" The triggers don't make more sense. It's been the same since the beginning and most people are used to it. Why should they change it?

09-30-2003, 10:08 PM	#60
coogrfan #HTownTakeover #YWCF OVR: 27 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 15,576	Re: \"Realism\" Quote: *jmood88 said:* The triggers don't make more sense. It's been the same since the beginning and most people are used to it. Why should they change it? The short answer is that assigning a left side button to a reciever on the right side of the screen(or vice-versa) is counter-intuitive. This is the sort of thing that frustrates new players(especially if your used to Madden's more logical system of changing icon assignments, i.e. regardless of whether a play has been flipped or not the left wr is always square[ps2], right is always circle, etc.). This is precisely the sort of thing that can cause new players to become frustrated and go back to Madden. Imo, Sega should strongly consider changing this in next years game.

09-30-2003, 11:39 PM	#61
mustardman Banned OVR: 4 Join Date: Feb 2003	Re: \"Realism\" Quote: *dork88 said:* No need to call me a troll, I'm entitled to criticize this game where it deserves it. It's not about "learning" how to play defense either. There's no denying that the shed tackles by the CPU is a problem, not a by-product of poor defense by the user. It's also clear that the AI is poor, as evident by the fact that your own plays that are called for you are the same for every kind of situation. Can anyone explain why the CPU never takes a shot downfield on a second and one and instead ALWAYS lines up in a two TE set with one receiver? Every game is the same and every team plays the same. It's like anti-Madden, they run too much and hardly pass, and when they do pass it's never to an open man, unless I play one of the awful zone coverages that are in the game. The CPU only completes passes by throwing to a receiver that you have covered, and your DB does some sort of "going for the ball" thing, and wham, the receiver is open now. I won't even get into how on every single running play I ever run, my leading fullback all of a sudden runs backwards, trips me up, and leaves me ripe for being plastered by a linebacker. Anyone who says they've never seen this is blind or a liar. I think there is one reason and one reason alone for the broken tackle issue, it was placed in the game because it is the only way for the CPU to gain any yards. Period. If anyone has seen any smart playcalling by the CPU or disagrees with my assessment of the situational playcalling as a whole, feel free to say so. I'm just venting some frustration and wanted to see if anyone else felt the same way and if they fixed it for themselves at all. Naturally, there's always some idiot who wants to call people names. I'm in total agreement with you. My only support of VC in this argument has to be that designing and implementing AI at any level of any game is incredibly difficult, ESPECIALLY when you're talking about a sports game. If you don't have a game that has a story, you better have a game that has AI. I really know very little about footbally. I'm more a baseball and basketball junkie. I will say, however, that even I have noticed the repeition in this game, how the computer is way too predictable on whether it is going to run or pass. I also remember that I have only started playing defense (I'm a "coach only" type of player against the computer, but I play with the guys when playing my wife) when I learned about the Bear package and have been using it a lot and also using "coach's pick" plays (which I don't think should be in the game except if you're playing on the easiest level). I're not a very good runner in this game. However, I will say that I learned that if you zig zag, the AI doesn't react quickly enough (Imagine what would happen if I learned how to do the "charge"). Conversely, the AI seems to cheat when you are near the endzone. All of a sudden, my interceptions (well, my QB's, after I pick the play in coach mode) seem to be much more frequent once I hit the redzone. Finally, it would be so nice to see two things I haven't seen yet (in probably 10-15 games): (1) see some hail mary passes by the opponent (2) see those other penalties that are NEVER called (can't recall them at the moment). Otherwise, I'll go with someone's opinion that I saw not long after the game came out: this is a GREAT multi-player game, but OK as a sim and single player game.

	MLB The Show 24 Review: Another Solid Hit for the Series
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	Where Are Our College Basketball Video Game Rumors?

10-01-2003, 12:29 AM	#62
wwharton ll Str OVR: 28 Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 26,978	Re: \"Realism\" Quote: *dork88 said:* The triggers just make more sense. And I never called anyone a fag. I said that people that patrol this board and try to censor people like me, who are just airing some beefs, are fags. For one person to take offense to that means they admit that that they're one of those "I'll tell you what you can or can't say" people. Regardless, I apologize. And there's no need to tell me some of the things i've complained about "aren't true". Can you tell me which specific thing? Cause I'll tell you how or when exactly it happened. And I don't need to practice more, I've put a ton of time into it already. Oh I see the use of derogatory slang for homosexual is ok when directed at a certain group of people. I apologize for not realizing that those were the ones you were talking about. If you'd like to classify me as one of "those" so be it. To be honest, I'm just an african american that always takes offense to unnecessary use of words like "fag" as insults, especially on a message board that one can hide behind. I can silently sit and when I know it comes from a teenager but from a 30 year old man is just sad. I have little desire to discuss anything with you consider I have very little respect for someone OUR age that falls to that level. Sorry.

10-01-2003, 07:49 AM	#63
chelios7 Rookie OVR: 3 Join Date: Sep 2003 Blog Entries: 1	Re: \"Realism\" Quote: *dork88 said:* The triggers just make more sense. And I never called anyone a fag. I said that people that patrol this board and try to censor people like me, who are just airing some beefs, are fags. For one person to take offense to that means they admit that that they're one of those "I'll tell you what you can or can't say" people. Regardless, I apologize. And there's no need to tell me some of the things i've complained about "aren't true". Can you tell me which specific thing? Cause I'll tell you how or when exactly it happened. And I don't need to practice more, I've put a ton of time into it already. Even on an internet discussion board, that is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read. "People that tell me what to do are fags." Is that your actual thoughts on this? Why not call them Nazis, or big brother, or the thought police? At least those would have some actual meaning. But calling people fags? You must be very insecure.

10-01-2003, 12:10 PM	#64
bkrich83 Need A Life OVR: 64 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: So. Cal Posts: 70,880 Blog Entries: 125	Re: \"Realism\" Apparently Dork thinks he has a constitutional right to post here, and post whatever he wants here.

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