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KillRoy · 10-25-2003, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Cardot said:
Bball,

The thing I liked most about ESPN over Madden is that the offenses don't all become unstoppable in the 4th quarter.

Since you asked about flaws, here are a few IMO:
1. RB's do break a few too many tackles on default. Sliders and experience make this managable though.
2. The game tracks plenty of stats, but they aren't nearly as polished or organized as EA. For example, you can't break stats down by divisions.
3. To where as controlling an EA player has a "Gliding" sensation to it, Sega has a bit of a herky jerky feel to it. Not really a flaw, but something you will notice.
4. I wouldn't say the Flag routes are money, but I definately have a disproportionate rate of success with them.

I just point out those minor issues because you asked. I really like this game and I am totally satisfied with my NFL gaming decision this year. I agree with the great things that the others brought up. Good luck either way.

i think this just about sums it up right here! alltough i would like to add a few things- first, i can`t stand the way they run in ESPN!!! i mean, are they wearing messy diapers? it`s looks like they`re galloping instead of just running. it looks SOOO damn stupid!

next- player momemtum is still not as good as madden`s, allthough i think madden`s is a little too exaggerated, while ESPN`s is not exaggerated enough. on defense i can still stop and turn on a dime and make a tackle. and on offense i can make my cuts with ease. this is not really a bad thing but it`s noticeable!

lastly- the tackle animations are just plain annoying. they hit too hard. it`s almost like NFL blitz.. okay, it`s not that bad but it will somewhat remind of the blitz days.

well a few things i like- i think the speed of the game is just about right, madden seems too fast to me while ESPN seems just about right. in ESPN you will have a little more time in the pocket to make your decisions. the pass blocking is better in this game. the running game is maybe slighty better than madden but only because you can make your cuts easier, as i stated earlier.

it`s hard to say which game has a better passing game. i have to go with madden because the defensive backs are so relentless.. it makes you want to become a better player! the ESPN presentation is better and so is the commentary. madden is so boring when it comes to play by play etc..etc..

overall, i prefer madden because of it`s "MORE" simmy feel. i swear if you sit down and play both you will notice a diffence and madden will seem more sim like than ESPN. in fact, you might even accuse ESPN of being an arcade game after you compare the two side by side. but don`t let that fool you, it is very realistic in a lot of ways.

but really.. the best thing to do is rent the game and go from there.

Kanobi · 10-25-2003, 01:08 AM

The gameplay is the deepest you'll find on consoles period. There are so many options in regards to playcalling/game preparation as well as when you actually control the players that you'll feel immersed in a very realistic football experience. The control is VERY tight and you'll never feel as if you're watching more than playing.

This requires an unprecedented level of strategic knowledge in order to be successful...especially on defense. If you're used to Madden's simple, pickup-n-play strategy...you'll pay dearly for trying to apply the same techniques in espnfl. This is advanced football.

Off the Field, espn does a decent job of provinding replay value with the Firts Person Football Mode and the CRIB...as well as a solid Franchise Mode. I don't play online so can't speak on that.

On the field espnfl is unparalelled and compared to Madden makes Madden seem outdated and aged. If you had three T.V's with a real NFL game/ ESPN and Madden simultaneously playing you'll instantly know ESPN is the truer depiction of real NFL football of the Two.

As for specific reasons why I know espn is the better Sim...I'll qoute a post of mine from another thread entitled "Stop Whinning! Madden is very Realistic!" that was on the Madden forum...

Quote:

Kanobi said:
Here are just a few additions Madden fans can expect for Madden' gameplay and presentation next year:

*1. A shoulder charge, over the pile dive, and tighter control of the spin move where the use actually controls in which direction the spin.

*2. A new "Playmaker All-Tackling System"...Pile-On gangtackling where you no longer have to "wait your turn" to try an tackle a ballcarrier as in all the previous editions of Madden.

*3. Customizable defensive Matchups.

*4. a HUGE amount of new tackling, passing, catching and blocking animations

*5. The ability to call the defensive front seperate from the defensive coverage.

*6. The ability to call hot Blitzes.

*7. The ability to make your DBs play inside and outside technique....even do combinations where you can call bump/inside or bump/outside....or loose/inside and loose/outside

*8. Gangtackle and half sacks will be tracked statistically. For Madden 2004, according to Strauser, gantackle stats where left out because EA/Tiburon feels its all subjective on which player got there first. However, VC was able to program espnfl to know what player got there first and which player assisted. I wonder what Strauser's excuse will be next year?

*9. Vastly improved global headtracking where ALL the players turn their heads and seem somewhat aware of WTF is happening on the field instead staring straight ahead. Expect better DB/WR play where Dbs will mirror the wr and jockey for better position to make a play on the ball.

*10. Expect Improved T.V like presentation complete with a halftime recap of the first half and a weekly primetime show that recaps all of the games for that week.

*11. A Vastly deeeper Challenge System that covers basically every situation and allows the user to select from a wide variety of choices. Alos expect Madden and Michales to discuss the call.

*12. Expect deeper offensive and defensive playbooks

*13. LB with realistic Jumping ability.

14. No more Comeback AI

15. More realistic looking player Models. No more legoland player models.

16. No more Bumper Car collision detection

*17. A deeper and more challenging running game that requires more strategy and techinique to contain. Pass defenses will no longer suffice against the run...nor ill dive tackling at bad angles bring the ball carrier down. Thanks to the NEW "playMaker ALL-Tackling System" , users can pile onto the ballcarrier and ASSIST on the tackle...even knock the ballcarrier back and change their momentum....possibly preventing a key first down or a score.

*18. Attributes will actually have a meaning. A deeper attribute AI that lets the stars players play to their abilites. No longer will there be 6th string wrs rated 51 ovr that play like Randy Moss.

*19. New Attributes..****N COVERAGE, CONSISTENCY, COMPOSURE, ROUTE RUNNING and AGRESSIVENESS... Along with a few other nfl2k4 attibutes.

*20. Adpative CPU AI during franchise Mode where your cpu opponents CLEARLY adapt to your playcalling tendacies as the seasons progress...forcing you to adjust your gmeplan and make changes to your playbook.

*21. New Defensive Line Moves....RIP and CLUB. No longer do you just have the Swim and and spin moves. Next year you'll be able to also use a RIP and CLUB move to get to the quaterback. Thats not all....you will also be able to control in which direction you Rip, Club, Spin, and SWIM for a a deeper pass rush element.

*22. You won't be able to drop back for 25 yards as you can in madden 2004. Nor will you be able to complete sidearm throws around a dlinemens body and back across the field for 40+ yard passes.

23. DBs will no longer teleport to make interceptions.

*24. All "Playmaker Juke System" where you can pull of new jukes and moves using the right analog stick. This might conflict with ability to telepathically instruct your blockers on who to block...which is alreay mapped to the right analog stick when running.

25. More realistic gameplay out of the box. Madden fans will no longer have to spend allt heir time being Gameplay Paramedics. They can actually spend more time actually being able to play a realistic game on default settings.

*26. Expect alot less momentum based Physics. No longer will it take your runners years to make cuts and change direction. "Control will be Tighter than Ever before!" lol! (I can already see this as a key EA Marketing phrase)

*27. All new "PLAYMAKER FOCUS"!!!...this allows the user to CHARGE up or build up kinetic energy that allows them to either perform stronger moves when running the rock or perform more powerful tackles when bringing down those power back. Never before (in Madden's History) as such a realistic element been introduced to football-gaming.

*28. Better scaled and more realistic loooking stadiums.

29. Smarter Crowd reactions and animations. No longer will the crowd movements be Looped in an animation that looks like you just kicked the game winning field goal in the Super Bowl.

*30. Vastly improved Commentary with alot more back n Forth bewteen al and john. This year John and/or al will discuss penalties, previous plays, how a player has played specifically on previous downs, The player's year/school/ht and weight, look at his last season stats, discuss challenged calls, etc.

*31. a Vastly improved audible system that gives you 5 options which are completely editable during gameplay. Alos a new No-Huddle audibling system that openes up even moe playcalling options...making the amount audibles at your disposal vitrually limitless.

*31. The ability Tackle ballcarrier while their in the MIDDLE OF a break tackle animation. This is a solo tackle...Not a gangtackle.

"*" = already in nfl2k4 or previous edtions of nfl2k.

I'm sure EA will add these things along with a host of other gameplay/presentation elements for Madden 2005!

as for flaws or weaknesses...

1. Special teams play isn't that great. Its very difficult to return kicks.

2. No In-game save which hurts because for realistic stats you'll have to play 9-11 minute qtrs

3. Create/edit player is kinda shallow and ultimately resutls in very generic looking players across the board or at every position.

4. The Franchise Mode, while pretty good, doesn't have near as much depth and replayabaility as Madden's. However, the gameplay will keep you hooked with Franchise Mode because the games get toughter every week due to he CPU adjusting to your playcalling tenddencies thus foprcing you to change up.

5. As mentioned before, The lack of transitional animations gives the players a very stiff look ...affectionately known as "Herky Jerky"

.

6. Roster management and depth Charts are quite limited. You can't edit players during your Franchise Mode.

7. No importable draft Classes. You have to edit your draft class every year in your franchise or everytime you start one which sucks.

The other stuff I think guys have already mentioned. But you should rent it at least. If you are a true football-gamer then you owe it to yourself to AT LEAST try the game out and see if its for you. Good Luck, man.

MuffinMcFluffin · 10-25-2003, 01:11 AM

Kanobi for California governor!!!

KillRoy · 10-25-2003, 01:45 AM

knobi, i agree with most of the stuff you said but if sega could just get the momentum physics down and touch up on the things me and Cardot talked about, it would blow madden away! until then i still say madden is a better overall game.

but about tackle animation.. i know i talked about this but if they could just tone it down a little on the tackles it would make the game so much better. but then again, madden needs to tone it up a little. ohhh well, i suppose their really is no middle ground for this, we just have to live with it.

sportsgeist · 10-25-2003, 03:28 AM

Yeah Madden does need to tone it up because most of their tackles aren't tackles you usually get knocked down. I call it bowling pin tackling. When you have a lot of players in an area they all just magically fall down together. It's just like what happens when a QB scrambles in ESPN and everybody get there to make the tackle at the same time but the QB slides and you have like 6 defenders diving at the same time and miss. The Rams receivers should have that slide move in the game.

Kanobi · 10-25-2003, 08:26 AM

Quote:

KillRoy said:
the tackle animations are just plain annoying. they hit too hard.

When I read this I picture some little boy

ing in his dad's arms after his dad let him play espnfl for the first time.

Anyway, If anything the tackles aren't hard ENOUGH. VC should definitely add some killshots for next year. Right now the tackling in espnfl is the best by far simply because of the variation and sheer amount of tackle animations.

KillRoy · 10-25-2003, 10:51 PM

Quote:

When I read this I picture some little boy ing in his dad's arms after his dad let him play espnfl for the first time.

don`t be an asswipe allright! with a comment like this it`s very clear that you have no idea what you`re talking about and you`re nothing but a [censored you naughty boy]. you sound like you actually enjoy NFL blitz tackles!

plain and simple, the tackles in ESPN are UNREALISTIC! besides i`m probably older than you are and this would mean i also have more experience than you do in football games, so STFUB!

Quote:

Anyway, If anything the tackles aren't hard ENOUGH.

you really do like NFL blitz tackles, don`t you!!

Quote:

Right now the tackling in espnfl is the best by far

like i said before, their really is no middle ground for this. both games could improve in the tackle department!

Quote:

because of the variation and sheer amount of tackle animations.

it doesn`t matter how many animations you have if most of them are unrealistic!! it`s just NOT an exceptable tackle animation when you can stop, turn on a dime and then slam the ball handler into the ground. and a lot of the animations are like this in ESPN.

bottom line- the X`s and O`s are their in ESPN. all they need to do is improve on player momentum and little things that are noticeable by "EXPERIENCED" ball players, and then MAYBE they might have a game that`s better than madden??

Kanobi · 10-25-2003, 11:28 PM

Quote:

KillRoy said:
don`t be an asswipe allright! with a comment like this it`s very clear that you have no idea what you`re talking about and you`re nothing but a [censored you naughty boy]. you sound like you actually enjoy NFL blitz tackles!

plain and simple, the tackles in ESPN are UNREALISTIC! besides i`m probably older than you are and this would mean i also have more experience than you do in football games, so STFUB!

Now now...theres no need for namecalling or telling people to STFU over the internet so you can sound tough.

The tackles in espn are not Blitz tackles. They are indeed VERY realistic..a far better tackling engine than Madden for sure. Madden's Bumper car collision detection coupled with the overblown momentum based physics AND repetitive tackle anims are the reason it looks so outdated compared to ESPN.

Quote:

KillRoy said:

Quote:

because of the variation and sheer amount of tackle animations.

it doesn`t matter how many animations you have if most of them are unrealistic!! it`s just NOT an exceptable tackle animation when you can stop, turn on a dime and then slam the ball handler into the ground. and a lot of the animations are like this in ESPN.

Most of the time in espn you have to square up (strafe button) and/or Charge to bring a ballcarrier down...especially the better rbs in the league. You have to take the right angles. At least in espn you don't have to wait until a break-tackle animation is finished before you can help bring down the ballcarrier like you do in Madden. Hell, even in NFL2k3 you could interrupt a break-tackle anim and stop a ballcarrier. That means Madden is TWO years behind in this aspect.

You claim the Tackles are unrealistic but I'll bet good Money you'll see the exact same tackles tomorrow in the Real-life NFL Games. In Fact I gaurantee it. You'll see alot of the exact same solo tackles and gangtackles in the actual NFL games that you see in espnfl.

Quote:

KillRoy said:
bottom line- the X`s and O`s are their in ESPN. all they need to do is improve on player momentum and little things that are noticeable by "EXPERIENCED" ball players, and then MAYBE they might have a game that`s better than madden

ESPN is better game than Madden right now as far onfield gameplay is concerned. I agree more transitional animations are needed to DEPICT momentum. However The Control in espn is Tight just as it should be and more momentum really isn't needed.

10-25-2003, 12:12 AM	#25
KillRoy MVP OVR: 10 Join Date: Jan 2003	Re: What\'s so good about ESPN that a madden player will want to switch Quote: *Cardot said:* Bball, The thing I liked most about ESPN over Madden is that the offenses don't all become unstoppable in the 4th quarter. Since you asked about flaws, here are a few IMO: 1. RB's do break a few too many tackles on default. Sliders and experience make this managable though. 2. The game tracks plenty of stats, but they aren't nearly as polished or organized as EA. For example, you can't break stats down by divisions. 3. To where as controlling an EA player has a "Gliding" sensation to it, Sega has a bit of a herky jerky feel to it. Not really a flaw, but something you will notice. 4. I wouldn't say the Flag routes are money, but I definately have a disproportionate rate of success with them. I just point out those minor issues because you asked. I really like this game and I am totally satisfied with my NFL gaming decision this year. I agree with the great things that the others brought up. Good luck either way. i think this just about sums it up right here! alltough i would like to add a few things- first, i can`t stand the way they run in ESPN!!! i mean, are they wearing messy diapers? it`s looks like they`re galloping instead of just running. it looks SOOO damn stupid! next- player momemtum is still not as good as madden`s, allthough i think madden`s is a little too exaggerated, while ESPN`s is not exaggerated enough. on defense i can still stop and turn on a dime and make a tackle. and on offense i can make my cuts with ease. this is not really a bad thing but it`s noticeable! lastly- the tackle animations are just plain annoying. they hit too hard. it`s almost like NFL blitz.. okay, it`s not that bad but it will somewhat remind of the blitz days. well a few things i like- i think the speed of the game is just about right, madden seems too fast to me while ESPN seems just about right. in ESPN you will have a little more time in the pocket to make your decisions. the pass blocking is better in this game. the running game is maybe slighty better than madden but only because you can make your cuts easier, as i stated earlier. it`s hard to say which game has a better passing game. i have to go with madden because the defensive backs are so relentless.. it makes you want to become a better player! the ESPN presentation is better and so is the commentary. madden is so boring when it comes to play by play etc..etc.. overall, i prefer madden because of it`s "MORE" simmy feel. i swear if you sit down and play both you will notice a diffence and madden will seem more sim like than ESPN. in fact, you might even accuse ESPN of being an arcade game after you compare the two side by side. but don`t let that fool you, it is very realistic in a lot of ways. but really.. the best thing to do is rent the game and go from there.

10-25-2003, 01:08 AM	#26
Kanobi HF Clss f '09 OVR: 14* Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 5,980 Blog Entries: 17	Re: What\'s so good about ESPN that a madden player will want to switch The gameplay is the deepest you'll find on consoles period. There are so many options in regards to playcalling/game preparation as well as when you actually control the players that you'll feel immersed in a very realistic football experience. The control is VERY tight and you'll never feel as if you're watching more than playing. This requires an unprecedented level of strategic knowledge in order to be successful...especially on defense. If you're used to Madden's simple, pickup-n-play strategy...you'll pay dearly for trying to apply the same techniques in espnfl. This is advanced football. Off the Field, espn does a decent job of provinding replay value with the Firts Person Football Mode and the CRIB...as well as a solid Franchise Mode. I don't play online so can't speak on that. On the field espnfl is unparalelled and compared to Madden makes Madden seem outdated and aged. If you had three T.V's with a real NFL game/ ESPN and Madden simultaneously playing you'll instantly know ESPN is the truer depiction of real NFL football of the Two. As for specific reasons why I know espn is the better Sim...I'll qoute a post of mine from another thread entitled "Stop Whinning! Madden is very Realistic!" that was on the Madden forum... Quote: *Kanobi said:* Here are just a few additions Madden fans can expect for Madden' gameplay and presentation next year: 1. A shoulder charge, over the pile dive, and tighter control of the spin move where the use actually controls in which direction the spin. 2. A new "Playmaker All-Tackling System"...Pile-On gangtackling where you no longer have to "wait your turn" to try an tackle a ballcarrier as in all the previous editions of Madden. 3. Customizable defensive Matchups. 4. a HUGE amount of new tackling, passing, catching and blocking animations 5. The ability to call the defensive front seperate from the defensive coverage. 6. The ability to call hot Blitzes. 7. The ability to make your DBs play inside and outside technique....even do combinations where you can call bump/inside or bump/outside....or loose/inside and loose/outside 8. Gangtackle and half sacks will be tracked statistically. For Madden 2004, according to Strauser, gantackle stats where left out because EA/Tiburon feels its all subjective on which player got there first. However, VC was able to program espnfl to know what player got there first and which player assisted. I wonder what Strauser's excuse will be next year? 9. Vastly improved global headtracking where ALL the players turn their heads and seem somewhat aware of WTF is happening on the field instead staring straight ahead. Expect better DB/WR play where Dbs will mirror the wr and jockey for better position to make a play on the ball. 10. Expect Improved T.V like presentation complete with a halftime recap of the first half and a weekly primetime show that recaps all of the games for that week. 11. A Vastly deeeper Challenge System that covers basically every situation and allows the user to select from a wide variety of choices. Alos expect Madden and Michales to discuss the call. 12. Expect deeper offensive and defensive playbooks 13. LB with realistic Jumping ability. 14. No more Comeback AI 15. More realistic looking player Models. No more legoland player models. 16. No more Bumper Car collision detection 17. A deeper and more challenging running game that requires more strategy and techinique to contain. Pass defenses will no longer suffice against the run...nor ill dive tackling at bad angles bring the ball carrier down. Thanks to the NEW "playMaker ALL-Tackling System" , users can pile onto the ballcarrier and ASSIST on the tackle...even knock the ballcarrier back and change their momentum....possibly preventing a key first down or a score. 18. Attributes will actually have a meaning. A deeper attribute AI that lets the stars players play to their abilites. No longer will there be 6th string wrs rated 51 ovr that play like Randy Moss. 19. New Attributes..***N COVERAGE, CONSISTENCY, COMPOSURE, ROUTE RUNNING and AGRESSIVENESS... Along with a few other nfl2k4 attibutes. 20. Adpative CPU AI during franchise Mode where your cpu opponents CLEARLY adapt to your playcalling tendacies as the seasons progress...forcing you to adjust your gmeplan and make changes to your playbook. 21. New Defensive Line Moves....RIP and CLUB. No longer do you just have the Swim and and spin moves. Next year you'll be able to also use a RIP and CLUB move to get to the quaterback. Thats not all....you will also be able to control in which direction you Rip, Club, Spin, and SWIM for a a deeper pass rush element. 22. You won't be able to drop back for 25 yards as you can in madden 2004. Nor will you be able to complete sidearm throws around a dlinemens body and back across the field for 40+ yard passes. 23. DBs will no longer teleport to make interceptions. 24. All "Playmaker Juke System" where you can pull of new jukes and moves using the right analog stick. This might conflict with ability to telepathically instruct your blockers on who to block...which is alreay mapped to the right analog stick when running. 25. More realistic gameplay out of the box. Madden fans will no longer have to spend allt heir time being Gameplay Paramedics. They can actually spend more time actually being able to play a realistic game on default settings. 26. Expect alot less momentum based Physics. No longer will it take your runners years to make cuts and change direction. "Control will be Tighter than Ever before!" lol! (I can already see this as a key EA Marketing phrase) 27. All new "PLAYMAKER FOCUS"!!!...this allows the user to CHARGE up or build up kinetic energy that allows them to either perform stronger moves when running the rock or perform more powerful tackles when bringing down those power back. Never before (in Madden's History) as such a realistic element been introduced to football-gaming. 28. Better scaled and more realistic loooking stadiums. 29. Smarter Crowd reactions and animations. No longer will the crowd movements be Looped in an animation that looks like you just kicked the game winning field goal in the Super Bowl. 30. Vastly improved Commentary with alot more back n Forth bewteen al and john. This year John and/or al will discuss penalties, previous plays, how a player has played specifically on previous downs, The player's year/school/ht and weight, look at his last season stats, discuss challenged calls, etc. 31. a Vastly improved audible system that gives you 5 options which are completely editable during gameplay. Alos a new No-Huddle audibling system that openes up even moe playcalling options...making the amount audibles at your disposal vitrually limitless. 31. The ability Tackle ballcarrier while their in the MIDDLE OF a break tackle animation. This is a solo tackle...Not a gangtackle. "" = already in nfl2k4 or previous edtions of nfl2k. I'm sure EA will add these things along with a host of other gameplay/presentation elements for Madden 2005! as for flaws or weaknesses... 1. Special teams play isn't that great. Its very difficult to return kicks. 2. No In-game save which hurts because for realistic stats you'll have to play 9-11 minute qtrs 3. Create/edit player is kinda shallow and ultimately resutls in very generic looking players across the board or at every position. 4. The Franchise Mode, while pretty good, doesn't have near as much depth and replayabaility as Madden's. However, the gameplay will keep you hooked with Franchise Mode because the games get toughter every week due to he CPU adjusting to your playcalling tenddencies thus foprcing you to change up. 5. As mentioned before, The lack of transitional animations gives the players a very stiff look ...affectionately known as "Herky Jerky" . 6. Roster management and depth Charts are quite limited. You can't edit players during your Franchise Mode. 7. No importable draft Classes. You have to edit your draft class every year in your franchise or everytime you start one which sucks. The other stuff I think guys have already mentioned. But you should rent it at least. If you are a true football-gamer then you owe it to yourself to AT LEAST try the game out and see if its for you. Good Luck, man.

10-25-2003, 01:11 AM	#27
MuffinMcFluffin Banned OVR: 14 Join Date: Feb 2003	Re: What\'s so good about ESPN that a madden player will want to switch Kanobi for California governor!!!

10-25-2003, 01:45 AM	#28
KillRoy MVP OVR: 10 Join Date: Jan 2003	Re: What\'s so good about ESPN that a madden player will want to switch knobi, i agree with most of the stuff you said but if sega could just get the momentum physics down and touch up on the things me and Cardot talked about, it would blow madden away! until then i still say madden is a better overall game. but about tackle animation.. i know i talked about this but if they could just tone it down a little on the tackles it would make the game so much better. but then again, madden needs to tone it up a little. ohhh well, i suppose their really is no middle ground for this, we just have to live with it.

10-25-2003, 03:28 AM	#29
sportsgeist MVP OVR: 10 Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Midwest	Re: What\'s so good about ESPN that a madden player will want to switch Yeah Madden does need to tone it up because most of their tackles aren't tackles you usually get knocked down. I call it bowling pin tackling. When you have a lot of players in an area they all just magically fall down together. It's just like what happens when a QB scrambles in ESPN and everybody get there to make the tackle at the same time but the QB slides and you have like 6 defenders diving at the same time and miss. The Rams receivers should have that slide move in the game.

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10-25-2003, 08:26 AM	#30
Kanobi HF Clss f '09 OVR: 14* Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 5,980 Blog Entries: 17	Re: What\'s so good about ESPN that a madden player will want to switch Quote: *KillRoy said:* the tackle animations are just plain annoying. they hit too hard. When I read this I picture some little boy ing in his dad's arms after his dad let him play espnfl for the first time. Anyway, If anything the tackles aren't hard ENOUGH. VC should definitely add some killshots for next year. Right now the tackling in espnfl is the best by far simply because of the variation and sheer amount of tackle animations.

10-25-2003, 10:51 PM	#31
KillRoy MVP OVR: 10 Join Date: Jan 2003	Re: What\'s so good about ESPN that a madden player will want to switch Quote: When I read this I picture some little boy ing in his dad's arms after his dad let him play espnfl for the first time. don`t be an asswipe allright! with a comment like this it`s very clear that you have no idea what you`re talking about and you`re nothing but a [censored you naughty boy]. you sound like you actually enjoy NFL blitz tackles! plain and simple, the tackles in ESPN are UNREALISTIC! besides i`m probably older than you are and this would mean i also have more experience than you do in football games, so STFUB! Quote: Anyway, If anything the tackles aren't hard ENOUGH. you really do like NFL blitz tackles, don`t you!! Quote: Right now the tackling in espnfl is the best by far like i said before, their really is no middle ground for this. both games could improve in the tackle department! Quote: because of the variation and sheer amount of tackle animations. it doesn`t matter how many animations you have if most of them are unrealistic!! it`s just NOT an exceptable tackle animation when you can stop, turn on a dime and then slam the ball handler into the ground. and a lot of the animations are like this in ESPN. bottom line- the X`s and O`s are their in ESPN. all they need to do is improve on player momentum and little things that are noticeable by "EXPERIENCED" ball players, and then MAYBE they might have a game that`s better than madden??

10-25-2003, 11:28 PM	#32
Kanobi HF Clss f '09 OVR: 14* Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 5,980 Blog Entries: 17	Re: What\'s so good about ESPN that a madden player will want to switch Quote: *KillRoy said:* don`t be an asswipe allright! with a comment like this it`s very clear that you have no idea what you`re talking about and you`re nothing but a [censored you naughty boy]. you sound like you actually enjoy NFL blitz tackles! plain and simple, the tackles in ESPN are UNREALISTIC! besides i`m probably older than you are and this would mean i also have more experience than you do in football games, so STFUB! Now now...theres no need for namecalling or telling people to STFU over the internet so you can sound tough. The tackles in espn are not Blitz tackles. They are indeed VERY realistic..a far better tackling engine than Madden for sure. Madden's Bumper car collision detection coupled with the overblown momentum based physics AND repetitive tackle anims are the reason it looks so outdated compared to ESPN. Quote: *KillRoy said:* Quote: because of the variation and sheer amount of tackle animations. it doesn`t matter how many animations you have if most of them are unrealistic!! it`s just NOT an exceptable tackle animation when you can stop, turn on a dime and then slam the ball handler into the ground. and a lot of the animations are like this in ESPN. Most of the time in espn you have to square up (strafe button) and/or Charge to bring a ballcarrier down...especially the better rbs in the league. You have to take the right angles. At least in espn you don't have to wait until a break-tackle animation is finished before you can help bring down the ballcarrier like you do in Madden. Hell, even in NFL2k3 you could interrupt a break-tackle anim and stop a ballcarrier. That means Madden is TWO years behind in this aspect. You claim the Tackles are unrealistic but I'll bet good Money you'll see the exact same tackles tomorrow in the Real-life NFL Games. In Fact I gaurantee it. You'll see alot of the exact same solo tackles and gangtackles in the actual NFL games that you see in espnfl. Quote: *KillRoy said:* bottom line- the X`s and O`s are their in ESPN. all they need to do is improve on player momentum and little things that are noticeable by "EXPERIENCED" ball players, and then MAYBE they might have a game that`s better than madden ESPN is better game than Madden right now as far onfield gameplay is concerned. I agree more transitional animations are needed to DEPICT momentum. However The Control in espn is Tight just as it should be and more momentum really isn't needed.

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What's so good about ESPN that a madden player will want to switch?