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PrimeTime21 · 11-18-2003, 10:46 PM

It's not because of the name Madden or that EA sports makes the game it's the fact that if you wanna be the champ you have to knock out the champ. In boxing would you leave it up to the judges? NOOOO... If you're the challenger even if you win you still didn't knock out the champ and will lose. ESPN Football is just about even with Madden so people who like Madden have no reason to switch over. You can't just "polish" your game if you got outsold 10-1 last year you have to make major upgrades. The presentation is cool but who the hell are those guys? We know the sunday night crew but who the hell are these guys in this game? The flat player models and funny running animation just shows how much VC needs to take the top players online and hire them as testers because it's obvious these guys don't care for football they just agree to test any game.

The blocking is just too powerful i was playing Madden and ESPN on twin view with my TV and i noticed that in Madden pancakes are rare and the defender stays in the play but in ESPN the lineman tackle your defensive players forget a pancake and they do it from behind which leads to looooong runs. I give VC credit for the tackling animations too thats way better than Maddens. the bottom line is if you want the title you're gonna have to do more than just "polish" your game EA can "polish" their game because they're on top but VC should come harder.

MuffinMcFluffin · 11-18-2003, 10:49 PM

The reason why Madden is winning is because they are a trustworthy company to throw out the same ol' good stuff that people have been loving for 14 years, yet we don't have a chance to get them to change their minds, nor could we get some to even LOOK at this game.

I can assure you that about 20% of the people that I know bought Madden didn't even know SEGA released a game this year because they never saw NFL 2K4 anywhere. That's how focused they are on Madden.

PrimeTime21 · 11-18-2003, 11:00 PM

Thats what i mean If sega actually made a game that was BETTER it would be known but they made a game on the same level as Madden. ESPN Football did get a buzz but they needed a knockout.

MuffinMcFluffin · 11-18-2003, 11:11 PM

See, here's the thing. ESPN is better than Madden. I'm not going to be hated on, mainly because it's an ESPN board. However, this also isn't opinion. Madden goes the same route every year, ESPN doesn't. Many people think that's good, that's why they buy the game, because they like the fact that they don't have to change too much to their style of play. They get enhancements such as Playmaker control and Owner mode, add-ons, not changes.

ESPN on the other hand went through some changes more than some add-ons. You can see from 2K2 to 2K4 all of the menus are different, player models had to be revamped, etc. from 2K2 to 2K3 they added ESPN. Although not a full license, they still changed all presentation. From 2K3 to 2K4, they went from radial-style playbooks to formal-style playbooks.

Drastic changes call for drastic measures. I hope that some year SEGA can keep what they have and just expand to it. They might have done that from 2K to 2K2, I'm not sure. But I am sure that changes equals frusteration. I think that this game is a terrific sample for next year's game, so if only they don't keep changing things and just enhance everything they have (FPF, Crib, franchise, even animations), then people that jump off the Madden bandwagon will have fun playing these games.

BBMo · 11-19-2003, 12:40 AM

Let me tell you the REAL reason why ESPN will not outsell madden...It's not because the games are equal. They are NOT equal. ESPN has far outdone madden in all of the aspects that truly matter. Gameplay, Realism and Fun Factor. True everyone has their opinion, but it amazes me how people who prefer madden can so easily overlook the FLAWS and continue to say that it's STILL the best game out there. When these same people see ONE THING WRONG with ESPN they say it sucks! You see it's really quite simple. The vast majority of people DO NOT LIKE CHANGE! It would simply be TOO HARD to try to learn another set of controls for another game engine (even if it may provide you with a better gaming experience) I admit I am one of those who don't like madden's controls (I never understood why they used a different button for offensive and defensive speed burst/madden 2003) but the truth of the matter is that I was playing madden before 2k EVER EXISTED. My desire to have the ultimate gaming experience OPENED my mind to other possibilities. First I went to Gameday, then to 2k and now ESPN. Of course that is MY preference and many of you may disagree. But as long as there are madden Loyalists out there who would rather tear out their eyes than look at another football game, EA's game will ALWAYS be the top seller. It doesn't matter what improvements the other companies make. There are no perfect games. The bottom line is madden has been building a fanbase for DECADES and unless EA decides to just quit making maddens, the other companies may NEVER catch up.

Peace

BigBadB · 11-19-2003, 12:53 AM

Madden will always be the top seller simply because its Madden. It has huge name recognition not just in the US, but almost globally.

As for your thoughts on what ESPN can do better...
Commentary-Sorry I don't buy the concept that Sega should contract the ESPN Sunday Night Football crew. Just because we know who they are doesn't mean that their commentary will make the game better. Afterall we all know Al Michaels and John Madden, but EA's commentary is easily the absolute worst in sports gaming.
Player Models-Both Sega's and EA's leave room for improvment. I really think its a push. Not an advantage Madden situation.
Blocking-I haven't really noticed too many pancakes. However, I haven't really looked. Overall I'm really pleased to see that the advanced line moves will actually allow a lineman or linebacker to shed a block and get to the ball.

PrimeTime21 · 11-19-2003, 01:03 AM

I like ESPN more but i think it's a close race. You can't really go wrong with either game. I think ESPN overall is more realistic and harder but Madden is just a game thats solid in most areas.

jmood88 · 11-19-2003, 05:18 AM

Espn won't outsell madden because madden sells on six consoles. Madden sells on ps1,xbox,ps2,pc,gameboy advance, and gamecube. Ea doesn't announce that when they that they're the number 1 selling game.

11-18-2003, 10:46 PM	#1
PrimeTime21 Pro OVR: 5 Join Date: Sep 2003	The reason why ESPN wont outsell Madden It's not because of the name Madden or that EA sports makes the game it's the fact that if you wanna be the champ you have to knock out the champ. In boxing would you leave it up to the judges? NOOOO... If you're the challenger even if you win you still didn't knock out the champ and will lose. ESPN Football is just about even with Madden so people who like Madden have no reason to switch over. You can't just "polish" your game if you got outsold 10-1 last year you have to make major upgrades. The presentation is cool but who the hell are those guys? We know the sunday night crew but who the hell are these guys in this game? The flat player models and funny running animation just shows how much VC needs to take the top players online and hire them as testers because it's obvious these guys don't care for football they just agree to test any game. The blocking is just too powerful i was playing Madden and ESPN on twin view with my TV and i noticed that in Madden pancakes are rare and the defender stays in the play but in ESPN the lineman tackle your defensive players forget a pancake and they do it from behind which leads to looooong runs. I give VC credit for the tackling animations too thats way better than Maddens. the bottom line is if you want the title you're gonna have to do more than just "polish" your game EA can "polish" their game because they're on top but VC should come harder.

11-18-2003, 10:49 PM	#2
MuffinMcFluffin Banned OVR: 14 Join Date: Feb 2003	Re: The reason why ESPN wont outsell Madden The reason why Madden is winning is because they are a trustworthy company to throw out the same ol' good stuff that people have been loving for 14 years, yet we don't have a chance to get them to change their minds, nor could we get some to even LOOK at this game. I can assure you that about 20% of the people that I know bought Madden didn't even know SEGA released a game this year because they never saw NFL 2K4 anywhere. That's how focused they are on Madden.

11-18-2003, 11:00 PM	#3
PrimeTime21 Pro OVR: 5 Join Date: Sep 2003	Re: The reason why ESPN wont outsell Madden Thats what i mean If sega actually made a game that was BETTER it would be known but they made a game on the same level as Madden. ESPN Football did get a buzz but they needed a knockout.

11-18-2003, 11:11 PM	#4
MuffinMcFluffin Banned OVR: 14 Join Date: Feb 2003	Re: The reason why ESPN wont outsell Madden See, here's the thing. ESPN is better than Madden. I'm not going to be hated on, mainly because it's an ESPN board. However, this also isn't opinion. Madden goes the same route every year, ESPN doesn't. Many people think that's good, that's why they buy the game, because they like the fact that they don't have to change too much to their style of play. They get enhancements such as Playmaker control and Owner mode, add-ons, not changes. ESPN on the other hand went through some changes more than some add-ons. You can see from 2K2 to 2K4 all of the menus are different, player models had to be revamped, etc. from 2K2 to 2K3 they added ESPN. Although not a full license, they still changed all presentation. From 2K3 to 2K4, they went from radial-style playbooks to formal-style playbooks. Drastic changes call for drastic measures. I hope that some year SEGA can keep what they have and just expand to it. They might have done that from 2K to 2K2, I'm not sure. But I am sure that changes equals frusteration. I think that this game is a terrific sample for next year's game, so if only they don't keep changing things and just enhance everything they have (FPF, Crib, franchise, even animations), then people that jump off the Madden bandwagon will have fun playing these games.

11-19-2003, 12:40 AM	#5
BBMo Rookie OVR: 2 Join Date: Oct 2003	Re: The reason why ESPN wont outsell Madden Let me tell you the REAL reason why ESPN will not outsell madden...It's not because the games are equal. They are NOT equal. ESPN has far outdone madden in all of the aspects that truly matter. Gameplay, Realism and Fun Factor. True everyone has their opinion, but it amazes me how people who prefer madden can so easily overlook the FLAWS and continue to say that it's STILL the best game out there. When these same people see ONE THING WRONG with ESPN they say it sucks! You see it's really quite simple. The vast majority of people DO NOT LIKE CHANGE! It would simply be TOO HARD to try to learn another set of controls for another game engine (even if it may provide you with a better gaming experience) I admit I am one of those who don't like madden's controls (I never understood why they used a different button for offensive and defensive speed burst/madden 2003) but the truth of the matter is that I was playing madden before 2k EVER EXISTED. My desire to have the ultimate gaming experience OPENED my mind to other possibilities. First I went to Gameday, then to 2k and now ESPN. Of course that is MY preference and many of you may disagree. But as long as there are madden Loyalists out there who would rather tear out their eyes than look at another football game, EA's game will ALWAYS be the top seller. It doesn't matter what improvements the other companies make. There are no perfect games. The bottom line is madden has been building a fanbase for DECADES and unless EA decides to just quit making maddens, the other companies may NEVER catch up. Peace

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11-19-2003, 12:53 AM	#6
BigBadB Rookie OVR: 4 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Oklahoma	Re: The reason why ESPN wont outsell Madden Madden will always be the top seller simply because its Madden. It has huge name recognition not just in the US, but almost globally. As for your thoughts on what ESPN can do better... Commentary-Sorry I don't buy the concept that Sega should contract the ESPN Sunday Night Football crew. Just because we know who they are doesn't mean that their commentary will make the game better. Afterall we all know Al Michaels and John Madden, but EA's commentary is easily the absolute worst in sports gaming. Player Models-Both Sega's and EA's leave room for improvment. I really think its a push. Not an advantage Madden situation. Blocking-I haven't really noticed too many pancakes. However, I haven't really looked. Overall I'm really pleased to see that the advanced line moves will actually allow a lineman or linebacker to shed a block and get to the ball.

11-19-2003, 01:03 AM	#7
PrimeTime21 Pro OVR: 5 Join Date: Sep 2003	Re: The reason why ESPN wont outsell Madden I like ESPN more but i think it's a close race. You can't really go wrong with either game. I think ESPN overall is more realistic and harder but Madden is just a game thats solid in most areas.

11-19-2003, 05:18 AM	#8
jmood88 Sean Payton: Retribution OVR: 40 Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 34,640 Blog Entries: 1	Re: The reason why ESPN wont outsell Madden Espn won't outsell madden because madden sells on six consoles. Madden sells on ps1,xbox,ps2,pc,gameboy advance, and gamecube. Ea doesn't announce that when they that they're the number 1 selling game.

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