bad news folks, n this time it's real

[jmood88]

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Dark_Lord_Vader said:
Whatever you say obi. I really don't care too much about this subject to respond to you in great detail. I can speak for others because like it or not, there are some NFL gamers out there who thought exactly what I pointed out.

I wish for nothing more than for NFL2k5 to outsell Madden 2-to-1. Because the more they sell, the more money they make. The more money they make, the better product they can produce for next year's title. Sounds like at the core we are on the same side. You are just unwilling to consider the opinion of another experienced NFL gamer. Too bad. Commence with the name calling.

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How did the name change affect sales? Nobody even knew that the other espn game existed.

[Dark_Lord_Vader]

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jmood88 said: How did the name change affect sales? Nobody even knew that the other espn game existed.

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It had an affect on sales in the negative, due to the fact that NFL2k has been a household name since 1999 and now that identity is gone. Allow me to embellish before you start tearing into me.

The NFL2k brand has been around for 4 years. I know the name still appears on the box of ESPN NFL Football, but it is very small, in the corner and nondescript. Sega must attract new gamers to their product if they are ever going to get over the 'Madden hump'. One way to do this is brand identity. These days, a four-year run is a long time for an NFL title. For Madden, it is no big deal. One of the reasons why Madden sells so many games is because most of those casual gamers out there pick it up at the store because they don't really know any other brands. By NFL2k abandoning their NFL2k brand, and starting all over again with a new name, they are losing a lot of those casual gamers. This is because as they are walking though the store, all they will see is Madden and ESPN NFL Football. Customer says, 'Well, I have heard of Madden but I have never heard of this ESPN game. Where is NFL2k4? Hmmm. Sega must have quit making it. I will buy Madden until I hear more about the newcomer." Madden wins again, Sega loses another sale.

Of course this is just the casual gamer I am speaking off. Us NFL2kers will be buying it year after year, regardless of what it's called. Consider this too. Gamers that may have quit playing for a few years may be looking to get back into it with the likes of the Xbox on the market now. These gamers will remember what they played and what stunk in the early to mid-nineties. One game that stands out like a sore thumb with hangnails and pimples on it, was ESPN Sunday Night Football. Fast forward to today. This gamer is going to remember how bad the ESPN game was, and not even give this one a second glance. Whereas if it still had the NFL2k name, he might be more apt to give it a shot.

[solja]

well said very well.said

let's not remeber espn was just floading the market with b.s. games before contracting with sega...alot of games was put out by them and consumers no to stay away from all that sports this brand....like i said...they tarnished their own name..n now vc/sega must dig themselves out of a hole..not only trying to digg out espn's video game name..but they tarnished the 2k name also..mannycasual gamers would have bought(if it was the name NFL 2K4)many will saty away from ESPN NFL FOOTBALL..think about it......you guys who act like your the smartest people in the world..

[Dark_Lord_Vader]

Thanks solja. Let's hope that Sega recognizes their mistake, and they rectify it for NFL2k5. I have never had a problem with the ESPN-style presentation in the game. In fact, I love it. Especially Chris Berman's commentary at Pre-game, Half-time, and especially the ESPN NFL Prime Time Post-Game Show. However, Sega needs to do what's best to get their products off the shelves. And that decision should have been to keep the NFL2k4 packaging, perhaps with a small 'Presented by ESPN' logo in the corner. People are comfortable with what's familiar. Especially gamers. Just look at the 10+ years of the successful Madden franchise. That is as familiar as familiar gets.

[Mell]

wow all this over a name change?? First off I would think most casual gamers don't know or even remember the terrible Espn games and for that matter even heard about them. Lets not forget that even with the 2k name they did'nt blow the roof off sales(partly due to the Dreamcast only issue, and partly due to being int'roed to the ps2 when Madden was gaining serious momentum) as the market was flooded with Ps/Ps2 owners which had.........MADDEN..thus the name change did'nt affect their choice of what game to get at all in most cases imo. I believe that the name change was a good step in a new direction to appeal to a bigger fan base. Honestly in just about every video game store Espn was pimped this past year but Madden still won out more than not why..becuase 2k/Espn has always been the more hardcore game while Ea always catered to fun first semi-sim second and believe it or not most casual gamers don't know the game of football as well as most think. So why would they choose a game that mimics the strategic thinking of Football game when they can buy a game that allows them to...well have fun. This is one of the many reasons espn/vc/sega aren't moving off the shelves as many people wold have thought..the hardcore gamers are vastly out numbered by the causal gamers so who do you think the top seller is aiming there offereings at? Even with the 2k name in front this game's sales would still stale in comparison to the mighty EA but it's not the name that sales games it's the gameplay,fun factor and replay value.. but when it comes to Ea for some it's just because there comfortable with what has been working for them for years...just my thoughts no shots thrown

[Dark_Lord_Vader]

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Mell said: …I believe that the name change was a good step in a new direction to appeal to a bigger fan base.

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I do hope you are right. I am certain that BOTH of us want Sega to succeed in order to be able to put more money into the development of their product. Which will mean an even better NFL2k for you and me.

[JRod]

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DONF said:
Interesting thread!! I believe Konabi hit it on the head. It is all about advertising!!! Every where you turn you see EA sports (even though it is not in the game). Hands down Sega has the best Football game to date. But, EA has the best advertisement of its never changing football game, Madden!! Sega will never win over the masses with weak advertisement. If you look at it this way, Sega is using its existing fans base to advertise the game and try to convert friends and family members over to their series. Everyone who plays ESPN Football knows at least 2 to 3 friends who are Madden fans. But, unfortunately, Sega's word of mouth advertisement is not working. Mainly because as one of my friends said it, "everyone plays Madden".

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Could it be that NFL 2kX just doesn't have the same appeal as Madden. Could it be that simple. Most of us like the game but also realize that it does have some problems.

I hate to keep bringing this up but there is one example out there where a smaller company with very little features has taken over EA sports. The world wide battle over FIFA and WE/PES is case in point of how a great game can outsell an EA sports giant.

First off Madden isn't half bad and couple that with an agressive marketing campaign you are facing a very tough competitor. With that said for Sega Sports to put a dent in EA sports they have to make ESPN NFL 2kX twice as good as Madden for it to stand out. So far I don't think on the whole that ESPN NFL is better than Madden. In some parts ESPN has the potential to wipe the floor with Madden but like most Sega games they are great except for a few key issues.

Anyway I'm not trying to get into a debate over what's better but what if it's just the simple fact that Madden sells a lot because it's not that bad. And for ESPN to get that recognition and capture the hype that have to do more than just add First person football that can't have any flaws in their game. No wierd stats, no weird AI flaws, nothing that can give customers any reason for them to like Madden. If there's no reason to give madden a try than they won't buy it. That's all I'm saying.

[PacMan3000]

I don't think you are giving people enough credit, here. Seriously, if you were a fan on the 2K games, you are going to know that they changed their name. You will have read about it.

If you are a more casual gamer and go into the store asking for a 2K game, more than likely the clerk will say, "Oh, well, Sega changed the 2K series into the ESPN NFL Football series. Same game, just a different name."

All people have to do is ask. If I'm looking for a game that I definitely want to buy and don't see it even though I know it's supposed to be on the shelf, I'm going to ask about it. I'm not going to say, "Oh well, I don't see the game I'm interested in--I think I'll buy Madden with my $50.00"

I'm not saying this never happened--I'm sure there have been a few cases of it. I just think that blaming the low sales on the name change is not giving people enough common sense credit.