More Links

LBzrule · 04-22-2004, 10:08 AM

Just one thing. Make sure you use the right rhetoric when speaking about the running game. Everyone is saying it needs to be "improved" but that's not what you really mean. If it "improves" anymore then ughhhh. If anything you want it to be toned down. I think it should stay the way it is, and what NEEDS to be improved is ALMOST EVERYTHING about defense. Tackling, Pursuit Logic, EFFORT (stop jogging and run your a$$ to the ball), zone coverage behaviors in space, Defensive linemen getting off the snap quickly and standing their ground, no more getting tackled or suplexed by the offensive linemen. And finally work on player movement. Do all of that and add to the already stellar presentation, add to franchise and we got the online league stuff and it's all good. But, I'm telling ya, if the defense aint up to par

They need to do what EA "SAYS" they are doing, namely Balancing the playing Field. We'll have faith that they will do this.

And let me add. In ESPN you don't HAVE to give up 80 yds consistently either. Although I admit, it took me 6 months to discover a defensive scheme that controls the running game. The only problem now is when the A.I just does BS like make my guys fall off like they got shot in the back. There are ways to control it in this year's game albeit some of those ways are unconventional

**DONOTDELETE** · 04-22-2004, 10:43 AM

Quote:

LBzrule said:
Just one thing. Make sure you use the right rhetoric when speaking about the running game. Everyone is saying it needs to be "improved" but that's not what you really mean. If it "improves" anymore then ughhhh. If anything you want it to be toned down...

Yeah, that would be funny (not really) if VC "improved" the running game by making it even MORE powerful.

I think a lot of this is "necessary evil." I mean, for YEARS, you couldn't run the ball at all in videogames. Now in ESPN it's rather easy. So now that we've had both ends of the spectrum, now it's time get to that happy median.

Defensive pursuit is definitely a problem as well as tackling. It's frustrating when I'm playing a buddy and I have his play sniffed out and I still can't make the play because even though I shift my players over to the side I know he's gonna run to (which he does) my players can't get there in time AND The MightyTrung Canidate breaks like 4 tackles.

LBzrule · 04-22-2004, 11:27 AM

Quote:

gooberstabone said:

Quote:

LBzrule said:
Just one thing. Make sure you use the right rhetoric when speaking about the running game. Everyone is saying it needs to be "improved" but that's not what you really mean. If it "improves" anymore then ughhhh. If anything you want it to be toned down...

Yeah, that would be funny (not really) if VC "improved" the running game by making it even MORE powerful.

I think a lot of this is "necessary evil." I mean, for YEARS, you couldn't run the ball at all in videogames. Now in ESPN it's rather easy. So now that we've had both ends of the spectrum, now it's time get to that happy median.

Defensive pursuit is definitely a problem as well as tackling. It's frustrating when I'm playing a buddy and I have his play sniffed out and I still can't make the play because even though I shift my players over to the side I know he's gonna run to (which he does) my players can't get there in time AND The MightyTrung Canidate breaks like 4 tackles.

Yeah it is probably a necessary evil, but it's time to work backwards toward that medium you are talking about because people are going to get highly upset if defense is SOFT AND I'm going to be one of those people. It's really not as easy as we think I suppose though. I mean we want stout defense. But we do want the occassional 65 to 70 yd gallop for a TD. I mean if I've got Jamal and can NEVER run a long one based off his performance last year I'm going to be pissed. But at the same time, If I got the Ravens D and I give up over a 20 yd run, which they didn't give up many over 20 yds at all and nothing over 25, but someone bust one for 80 yds I'm going to be ticked. If I'm one of the top 12 run defenses, I'm ticked when this happens, because it just shouldn't happen. Especially if 2 guys are there to make the play and they just fall down like they got shot in the back because of the "power of the RB". Give me a break. On the other hand, if the run defense is weak, I should be able to find mismatches and alot of areas to poke and run unless someone compensates for it. If I got Jamal vs say the Browns, who overall are decent vs the run, but just can't handle Jamal and I can't run worth garbage, then I'm going to be pissed. In the end, it's a matter of player personality's and getting the in game model to play and ACT like his real life counterpart. And getting the in game team to play they way they are supposed to play. I don't know how possible that is yet.

Sorry Trung got ya LOL.

Dark_Lord_Vader · 04-22-2004, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Kanobi said:
Guys, I highly doubt nfl2k5 will be worse than 2k4. Fear not.

Agreed Kanobi…as long as ESPN ADDS to the game and does not SUBTRACT anything but problems from the game. This is what happened when it went from NFL2k1 to NFL2k2. NFL2k1 was far and away superior to NFL2k2.

Dark_Lord_Vader · 04-22-2004, 12:07 PM

Quote:

APD0290 said: Unless ESPN makes a DRASTIC improvement, I don't seeing it catching up to Madden, sales wise or gameplay wise.

Sales wise, no. Gameplay wise, it already has been better than Madden since the beginning of NFL2k back in 1999.

APD0290 · 04-22-2004, 12:41 PM

We all have opinions. I own both ESPN NFL Football and Madden 2004 (ESPN for Xbox and Madden for PS2), and I think that Madden, using Jistic's sliders, is a much better football game.

njskillz · 04-22-2004, 12:56 PM

Quote:

LBzrule said:
Just one thing. Make sure you use the right rhetoric when speaking about the running game. Everyone is saying it needs to be "improved" but that's not what you really mean. If it "improves" anymore then ughhhh. If anything you want it to be toned down. I think it should stay the way it is, and what NEEDS to be improved is ALMOST EVERYTHING about defense. Tackling, Pursuit Logic, EFFORT (stop jogging and run your a$$ to the ball), zone coverage behaviors in space, Defensive linemen getting off the snap quickly and standing their ground, no more getting tackled or suplexed by the offensive linemen. And finally work on player movement. Do all of that and add to the already stellar presentation, add to franchise and we got the online league stuff and it's all good. But, I'm telling ya, if the defense aint up to par They need to do what EA "SAYS" they are doing, namely Balancing the playing Field. We'll have faith that they will do this.

And let me add. In ESPN you don't HAVE to give up 80 yds consistently either. Although I admit, it took me 6 months to discover a defensive scheme that controls the running game. The only problem now is when the A.I just does BS like make my guys fall off like they got shot in the back. There are ways to control it in this year's game albeit some of those ways are unconventional

Thank Goodness for this thread, and especially the reply from LB. He hit it right on the nose. I have been a huge fan of the series. I was extremely high on ESPN at first, to the point of getting a write up in the Philadelphia Enquirer about it soon after it came it came out. I gradually became disenchanted with the game because VC succumbed to all that talk about the game being too hard, and "Maddened down"....er I mean dumbed down the gameplay. More specifically, they "F" up the running game. I'm not into single player so the sliders cure is not an option for me. I assume the "Crib" stuff appealed to a lot of fringe gamers. It seems as though VC focused on that side in the first version of the ESPN series. Hopefully they will return to their roots and look to satisfy their hardcore football head devotees.

wwharton · 04-22-2004, 05:07 PM

thank god for this thread? ugh.

this whole thread is one big fire waiting to happen. to say either nba or mlb went backwards is a matter of opinion. nba changed in ways many didn't like but if they add to what they were trying to accomplish everyone will be riding that train again. i have no idea what the mlb comment was about. then we get the espn won't catch madden in sales or gameplay comment. lbz made a sensible post to give the thread some direction but come on.

if that is your huge concern then don't worry. i'll just leave it at that. everything else being said is going to make this an ugly thread.

04-22-2004, 10:08 AM	#9
LBzrule Hall Of Fame OVR: 40 Join Date: Jul 2002 Blog Entries: 8	Re: My Huge Concern Just one thing. Make sure you use the right rhetoric when speaking about the running game. Everyone is saying it needs to be "improved" but that's not what you really mean. If it "improves" anymore then ughhhh. If anything you want it to be toned down. I think it should stay the way it is, and what NEEDS to be improved is ALMOST EVERYTHING about defense. Tackling, Pursuit Logic, EFFORT (stop jogging and run your a$$ to the ball), zone coverage behaviors in space, Defensive linemen getting off the snap quickly and standing their ground, no more getting tackled or suplexed by the offensive linemen. And finally work on player movement. Do all of that and add to the already stellar presentation, add to franchise and we got the online league stuff and it's all good. But, I'm telling ya, if the defense aint up to par They need to do what EA "SAYS" they are doing, namely Balancing the playing Field. We'll have faith that they will do this. And let me add. In ESPN you don't HAVE to give up 80 yds consistently either. Although I admit, it took me 6 months to discover a defensive scheme that controls the running game. The only problem now is when the A.I just does BS like make my guys fall off like they got shot in the back. There are ways to control it in this year's game albeit some of those ways are unconventional

04-22-2004, 10:43 AM	#10
DONOTDELETE Hall Of Fame OVR: 1 Join Date: Dec 1969	Re: My Huge Concern Quote: *LBzrule said:* Just one thing. Make sure you use the right rhetoric when speaking about the running game. Everyone is saying it needs to be "improved" but that's not what you really mean. If it "improves" anymore then ughhhh. If anything you want it to be toned down... Yeah, that would be funny (not really) if VC "improved" the running game by making it even MORE powerful. I think a lot of this is "necessary evil." I mean, for YEARS, you couldn't run the ball at all in videogames. Now in ESPN it's rather easy. So now that we've had both ends of the spectrum, now it's time get to that happy median. Defensive pursuit is definitely a problem as well as tackling. It's frustrating when I'm playing a buddy and I have his play sniffed out and I still can't make the play because even though I shift my players over to the side I know he's gonna run to (which he does) my players can't get there in time AND The MightyTrung Canidate breaks like 4 tackles.

04-22-2004, 11:27 AM	#11
LBzrule Hall Of Fame OVR: 40 Join Date: Jul 2002 Blog Entries: 8	Re: My Huge Concern Quote: *gooberstabone said:* Quote: *LBzrule said:* Just one thing. Make sure you use the right rhetoric when speaking about the running game. Everyone is saying it needs to be "improved" but that's not what you really mean. If it "improves" anymore then ughhhh. If anything you want it to be toned down... Yeah, that would be funny (not really) if VC "improved" the running game by making it even MORE powerful. I think a lot of this is "necessary evil." I mean, for YEARS, you couldn't run the ball at all in videogames. Now in ESPN it's rather easy. So now that we've had both ends of the spectrum, now it's time get to that happy median. Defensive pursuit is definitely a problem as well as tackling. It's frustrating when I'm playing a buddy and I have his play sniffed out and I still can't make the play because even though I shift my players over to the side I know he's gonna run to (which he does) my players can't get there in time AND The MightyTrung Canidate breaks like 4 tackles. Yeah it is probably a necessary evil, but it's time to work backwards toward that medium you are talking about because people are going to get highly upset if defense is SOFT AND I'm going to be one of those people. It's really not as easy as we think I suppose though. I mean we want stout defense. But we do want the occassional 65 to 70 yd gallop for a TD. I mean if I've got Jamal and can NEVER run a long one based off his performance last year I'm going to be pissed. But at the same time, If I got the Ravens D and I give up over a 20 yd run, which they didn't give up many over 20 yds at all and nothing over 25, but someone bust one for 80 yds I'm going to be ticked. If I'm one of the top 12 run defenses, I'm ticked when this happens, because it just shouldn't happen. Especially if 2 guys are there to make the play and they just fall down like they got shot in the back because of the "power of the RB". Give me a break. On the other hand, if the run defense is weak, I should be able to find mismatches and alot of areas to poke and run unless someone compensates for it. If I got Jamal vs say the Browns, who overall are decent vs the run, but just can't handle Jamal and I can't run worth garbage, then I'm going to be pissed. In the end, it's a matter of player personality's and getting the in game model to play and ACT like his real life counterpart. And getting the in game team to play they way they are supposed to play. I don't know how possible that is yet. Sorry Trung got ya LOL.

04-22-2004, 12:02 PM	#12
Dark_Lord_Vader Banned OVR: 9 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Georgia (Heart in Colorado)	Re: My Huge Concern Quote: *Kanobi said:* Guys, I highly doubt nfl2k5 will be worse than 2k4. Fear not. Agreed Kanobi…as long as ESPN ADDS to the game and does not SUBTRACT anything but problems from the game. This is what happened when it went from NFL2k1 to NFL2k2. NFL2k1 was far and away superior to NFL2k2.

04-22-2004, 12:07 PM	#13
Dark_Lord_Vader Banned OVR: 9 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Georgia (Heart in Colorado)	Re: My Huge Concern Quote: *APD0290 said:* Unless ESPN makes a DRASTIC improvement, I don't seeing it catching up to Madden, sales wise or gameplay wise. Sales wise, no. Gameplay wise, it already has been better than Madden since the beginning of NFL2k back in 1999.

	MLB The Show 24 Review: Another Solid Hit for the Series
	New Star GP Review: Old-School Arcade Fun
	Where Are Our College Basketball Video Game Rumors?

04-22-2004, 12:41 PM	#14
APD0290 Pro OVR: 7 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Massachusetts	Re: My Huge Concern We all have opinions. I own both ESPN NFL Football and Madden 2004 (ESPN for Xbox and Madden for PS2), and I think that Madden, using Jistic's sliders, is a much better football game.

04-22-2004, 12:56 PM	#15
njskillz Pro OVR: 7 Join Date: Jul 2002	Re: My Huge Concern Quote: *LBzrule said:* Just one thing. Make sure you use the right rhetoric when speaking about the running game. Everyone is saying it needs to be "improved" but that's not what you really mean. If it "improves" anymore then ughhhh. If anything you want it to be toned down. I think it should stay the way it is, and what NEEDS to be improved is ALMOST EVERYTHING about defense. Tackling, Pursuit Logic, EFFORT (stop jogging and run your a$$ to the ball), zone coverage behaviors in space, Defensive linemen getting off the snap quickly and standing their ground, no more getting tackled or suplexed by the offensive linemen. And finally work on player movement. Do all of that and add to the already stellar presentation, add to franchise and we got the online league stuff and it's all good. But, I'm telling ya, if the defense aint up to par They need to do what EA "SAYS" they are doing, namely Balancing the playing Field. We'll have faith that they will do this. And let me add. In ESPN you don't HAVE to give up 80 yds consistently either. Although I admit, it took me 6 months to discover a defensive scheme that controls the running game. The only problem now is when the A.I just does BS like make my guys fall off like they got shot in the back. There are ways to control it in this year's game albeit some of those ways are unconventional Thank Goodness for this thread, and especially the reply from LB. He hit it right on the nose. I have been a huge fan of the series. I was extremely high on ESPN at first, to the point of getting a write up in the Philadelphia Enquirer about it soon after it came it came out. I gradually became disenchanted with the game because VC succumbed to all that talk about the game being too hard, and "Maddened down"....er I mean dumbed down the gameplay. More specifically, they "F" up the running game. I'm not into single player so the sliders cure is not an option for me. I assume the "Crib" stuff appealed to a lot of fringe gamers. It seems as though VC focused on that side in the first version of the ESPN series. Hopefully they will return to their roots and look to satisfy their hardcore football head devotees.

04-22-2004, 05:07 PM	#16
wwharton ll Str OVR: 28 Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 26,978	Re: My Huge Concern thank god for this thread? ugh. this whole thread is one big fire waiting to happen. to say either nba or mlb went backwards is a matter of opinion. nba changed in ways many didn't like but if they add to what they were trying to accomplish everyone will be riding that train again. i have no idea what the mlb comment was about. then we get the espn won't catch madden in sales or gameplay comment. lbz made a sensible post to give the thread some direction but come on. if that is your huge concern then don't worry. i'll just leave it at that. everything else being said is going to make this an ugly thread.

More Links

My Huge Concern