An ode to the referees of 2K4 - directional perfection?

[spankdatazz22]

On the eve of our finally being able to see gameplay videos of 2K5, I wanted to give HUGE props to VC for something that goes practically unnoticed during the course of gameplay... the referees.

I'm guessing others have noticed this before, but man, did VC do a great job with the referees. Do this: let the game play itself (I was playing Dolphins at Titans, daytime, 7min qtrs), and watch how the referees head track, follow a play, position themselves as the play occurs... it's almost on par with the OL/DL line play; it's (for lack of a better word)... beautiful.

In fact, it almost seems as though the referees move better than the players, in terms of directional movement. They don't turn in 8 directions. They strafe. They turn their hips in the proper manner when following plays. When following a play while stationary, they turn in increments - they DON'T PIVOT. I got a big kick just watching the refs on different plays. Granted, they're running slower than the players on the field. But the effect of how the referees move in relation to the game is amazing. That VC could incorporate this type of subtle detail to improve upon the overall effect is why they deserve such praise. And I haven't even mentioned the sidelines...

Just for kicks, I dusted off my copy of Madden 2004 to see if this was something that was common in each game (I'll BURN the game or use it in some high school gravity experiment before I trade it in to Electronics Boutique for the measly sum of $5). I tried using the same conditions. First of all, you don't get the ability to select any of the refs during replays - you sort of have to "follow" them w/the camera. It's almost comical how out of the play they are. There's no head tracking, and at times they're facing the complete opposite of the direction of the play. The thing is (as anyone that's played Madden would know) it seems the only time the ref comes into play is when he gets in the way of a pass play. It happens so often in Madden you'd think Tiburon inserted this kind of thing to give "realism" to the gameplay. Of course, since so many people hate it, it needs to be removed.

It wasn't my intention to bash Madden in this thread, but seeing that this morning made me want to give props to VC for creating a game with so many football subleties that can easily be taken for granted. Thanks again VC, for a great 2k4 - stuff like this makes me anticipate 2K5 all the more...

[jmood88]

I noticed this too. I read a story about which referees do which in sports illustrated (it was during the week of the superbowl) and when I simulated the superbowl they did exactly what they were supposed to do and they move like real referees. It's amazing the detail that vc puts into games.

[GTheorenHobbes]

Good thread. I've never really noticed it before, but will keep my eye on the refs the next time that I play. Just a small detail, but appreciated all the same.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Quote:

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spankdatazz22 said:
On the eve of our finally being able to see gameplay videos of 2K5, I wanted to give HUGE props to VC for something that goes practically unnoticed during the course of gameplay... the referees.

I'm guessing others have noticed this before, but man, did VC do a great job with the referees. Do this: let the game play itself (I was playing Dolphins at Titans, daytime, 7min qtrs), and watch how the referees head track, follow a play, position themselves as the play occurs... it's almost on par with the OL/DL line play; it's (for lack of a better word)... beautiful.

In fact, it almost seems as though the referees move better than the players, in terms of directional movement. They don't turn in 8 directions. They strafe. They turn their hips in the proper manner when following plays. When following a play while stationary, they turn in increments - they DON'T PIVOT. I got a big kick just watching the refs on different plays. Granted, they're running slower than the players on the field. But the effect of how the referees move in relation to the game is amazing. That VC could incorporate this type of subtle detail to improve upon the overall effect is why they deserve such praise. And I haven't even mentioned the sidelines...

Just for kicks, I dusted off my copy of Madden 2004 to see if this was something that was common in each game (I'll BURN the game or use it in some high school gravity experiment before I trade it in to Electronics Boutique for the measly sum of $5). I tried using the same conditions. First of all, you don't get the ability to select any of the refs during replays - you sort of have to "follow" them w/the camera. It's almost comical how out of the play they are. There's no head tracking, and at times they're facing the complete opposite of the direction of the play. The thing is (as anyone that's played Madden would know) it seems the only time the ref comes into play is when he gets in the way of a pass play. It happens so often in Madden you'd think Tiburon inserted this kind of thing to give "realism" to the gameplay. Of course, since so many people hate it, it needs to be removed.

It wasn't my intention to bash Madden in this thread, but seeing that this morning made me want to give props to VC for creating a game with so many football subleties that can easily be taken for granted. Thanks again VC, for a great 2k4 - stuff like this makes me anticipate 2K5 all the more...

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Now THAT'S the type of thinking ol' Goober likes!

I'll have to look out for that in more detail next time. But, yes, they do indeed strafe and if I remember correctly, they seem to strafe better than the defenders! But let's hope that 2k5 has incorporated this good movement for the players, and if not...

... There's always 2k6.

[MercilessMagal]

Different thread... nice points and good observation there... i turned the game on just to check this out and it is VERY interesting.. you are right, they NEVER pivot like the players... thanks for posting this and mad props to VC.

[marcuscoleman]

On an interception return I had the misfortune of finding a ref taking away the sideline, and came off the worse for wear in my attempt to run over him, got bounced into the arms of the pursuit.

[Dark_Lord_Vader]

Good detail thread. Dark-Lord loves this stuff too!

Something else to look for — When there is a penalty on the play, you see several refs throw the yellow flag onto the field! How cool is that! Very realistic!

Requests for Refs in 2k5:

1) Have refs get in between players that are shoving each other after a play and jawing at each other.

2) Have the refs give the 'Missed it by that much.' animation after the chain gang comes out, they measure the spot and it is short.

3) If the measurement indicates a first down, why not have a Red Cashen type of audio snippet where the Ref says 'FIRST DAAAOOOOWWWNNN!!'

4) Have a cut scene to a Ref every once in a while after a huge score. Like him throwing his hands up in the air indicating that a game winning field goal is good, or having him motion that a supposed game-winning touchdown was no good, having him toss his arms to the side.

5) Wind the clock animation at the start of a game.

Whatcha think?

[Klue516]

Quote:

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Dark_Lord_Vader said:
Good detail thread. Dark-Lord loves this stuff too!

Something else to look for — When there is a penalty on the play, you see several refs throw the yellow flag onto the field! How cool is that! Very realistic!

Requests for Refs in 2k5:

1) Have refs get in between players that are shoving each other after a play and jawing at each other.

2) Have the refs give the 'Missed it by that much.' animation after the chain gang comes out, they measure the spot and it is short.

3) If the measurement indicates a first down, why not have a Red Cashen type of audio snippet where the Ref says 'FIRST DAAAOOOOWWWNNN!!'

4) Have a cut scene to a Ref every once in a while after a huge score. Like him throwing his hands up in the air indicating that a game winning field goal is good, or having him motion that a supposed game-winning touchdown was no good, having him toss his arms to the side.

5) Wind the clock animation at the start of a game.

Whatcha think?

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I like it....hopefully VC thought of this while adding the 200+ cuts scenes for ESPN2k5!