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Old 05-19-2004, 09:03 PM   #65
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Re: More E3 ESPN NFL 2005 Movie Clips

Yeah bro, you got both me and lbz pegged to a T. We're both as closed minded as they come doing whatever we can to support ESPN without knowing anything about the actual game.

I have no reason to prove myself to you, lol. And LBz of all people, I really don't even have a need to prove HIS stance to you. What's closed minded is playing tha fanboy card if you don't agree or understand and THAT is very obvious when you consider the sources you are attacking.

Anyway, your original point is worth debating. For you I'll break down ALL of EACH video starting with video one.

The first play the defender manually blitzed with an LB. The Dline played as they should finally, opening up the hole for him. If I'm the QB I DEFINITELY see this coming as it's manual and there should be someone open in the zone left open or with one of the receivers. If I see it and still want time I leave my back in to block.

The second play he doesn't manually blitz and has plenty of time. Next play same as the second. Third play was insanely realistic (guys gotta watch this one again). It's the only one where a Dlinesman gets close with a nice move and he dives at the QB's feet but the QB still has time to do his 3 or 5 steps and fire the ball.

That's it for the passing plays. Next 2 vids coming.
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Old 05-19-2004, 09:09 PM   #66
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Re: More E3 ESPN NFL 2005 Movie Clips

hmm, i am looking over it as you go, i see no reason to stop with passing plays but oh well. BTW the first running play the Dlineman isn't blocked at all and stuffs the run
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Old 05-19-2004, 09:09 PM   #67
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Re: More E3 ESPN NFL 2005 Movie Clips

Wish the light bulb would turn on for you Erratic, but you will never understand what we are saying until you understand the way ESPN's passing game works. My advise to a Madden player is don't touch the stick at all and let the CPU handle the drop back for you. A properly timed pass (if the guy is open) is to get rid of the ball as soon as the QB does his "bounce." In Madden, the QB does his bounce and then still has plenty of time to throw. In ESPN, if you're still holding onto the ball, look out or be prepared to use the "QB evade" button.

I know it seems to you like we're blindly defending the game. And I guess we are, since we know how the game works. And to be honest with you, ESPN's system mirrors the real NFL a helluva lot more in this respect than Madden, IMO. If you spend a lot of time with the game and get a feel for it, I'm pretty sure you'll see what we mean.

And then you'll be stuck "blindly defending" ESPN right along with us to other Madden fans who haven't yet seen the light.
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Old 05-19-2004, 09:11 PM   #68
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Re: More E3 ESPN NFL 2005 Movie Clips

First play, madden drop back allowed the DE to get around the Olineman ready to block him. QB didn't use the pocket at all and paid for it.

Second play, both linebackers blitzed up the gaps and the rb was not in to block. 6 rushers, 4 defenders, you do the math. QB still had time to throw after what should've been a 5 step drop (he took more than that) without getting sacked.

Third play, plenty of time. Next play (VIKES possession) plenty of time. Next play, 2 LBs blitzing but still plenty of time (Vikes Oline is nice).

Next play, manually controlled DT does a fake move out, C had to block other DT on a pinch. Was just a real nice move. If this happened every time then you definitely have reason to worry but even still, only in multiplayer b/c it was the manual move that got him. This is probably the one you were focusing on.

Third vid is next.
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Old 05-19-2004, 09:14 PM   #69
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Re: More E3 ESPN NFL 2005 Movie Clips

Quote:

Erratic said:
Quote:

Is the QB dropping like that because of the Dline pressure or is the Dline getting that type of pressure because the QB is dropping like that?




I would answer this question based on previous plays. There have been instances where the QB was sacked in the middle of his drop, for example step 1 of 3 he was sacked. I would now assume that based off these instances of pressure the QB fades back to avoid the pressure and that he would have been sacked if he had not faded back.

However we wont and cant know based on these vids since he faded back, but like i said based on previous plays i came to certain assumptions.

I agree that a player should be able to drop back like that and pass, that why i dislike madden for 1 reason, but the instances where a QB is sacked in mid step with a 4 man rush in a game with 2 minute quarters is not good imo. I suppose it would be helpful if fetter or some other OS guys could comment on this but oh well.




Yeah fetter or someone else could shed some light on the "issue" here. I do think though that sometimes the Dline (4 man rush) should be able to get to the QB in his drop. Not all the time, not even frequently maybe once a game. But I must say, toward the end of movie 62, when the user took Culpepper out of the pocket that was the best move he could have made. Also have to factor in the Jags Dline will probably be on of the BEST in the game, with Henderson and Stroud in the middle. Hovan and Williams are good for the Vikes as well. I don't advocate it every play but once a game is nice. The Jags series before Leftwich has time to throw, at around 2:56 mark of the vid. First play of movie 62, Leftwich has plenty of time on the PA. Third play :55 sec mark, he got the ball off vs a Fierce Bear Zone blitz, and he did leave his QB unprotected here going Empty Open. At 2:56 Culpepper dropped back, he had time to throw it, but waited to see if the man would get open, got buried had a guy wide open on an IN route. His defender is trailing by a good 2 yds. 3:28 did the smart thing and moved Culpepper out of the pocket, stared down 1 WR got the ball swatted. Actually there is a guy coming from the other side that's running a Drag route, Arrow is his icon, he's in a good position to make a catch. Wouldn't have given him the first though. 4:17 Defensive line pressure is quick because of a screen. Look at the right side of the oline bail out along with the RB, user keeps dropping. Probalby should have throw it to the RB here. It was man coverage, blockers were set up. 4:44 Blitz with the Safety, user immediatley begins to drop back gets swallowed up by the pressure. Hot route slant could have done wonders here. Notice how fare the drop was. He went from 3rd and 7 to 4th and 15. 5:20 looks like QB evade, blitz by user with Safety, QB unprotected. This is the perfect time for a blitz actually. Forced the throw picked off and that's ball game. Really don't see too much of a problem with the Dline here.
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Old 05-19-2004, 09:17 PM   #70
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Re: More E3 ESPN NFL 2005 Movie Clips

Quote:

Erratic said:
hmm, i am looking over it as you go, i see no reason to stop with passing plays but oh well. BTW the first running play the Dlineman isn't blocked at all and stuffs the run




Acutally if he would have motioned the FB either left, that's right as strange as it sounds Left, he would have reached out to pick up that OLB.
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Old 05-19-2004, 09:19 PM   #71
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Re: More E3 ESPN NFL 2005 Movie Clips

Lol your a funny guy, first off, i bought madden and exchanged it the day ESPN came out, so dont lecture me. Unlike you i actually want to play the best football game each year unlike you who seem to have a special bond with ESPN where u need to buy their game.

It isn't realistic when a QB doesn't have time to throw the ball on a 3 step drop time and time again. I enjoy how you are clearly skipping the run plays sine on nearly every one the dline is stuffing the RB in the backfield because the oline didn't block.

in the second vid at 4:03 second in, lol that’s not i nice move, that is a stun gone wrong. its an x-stunt except the DT doesn't complete it changes his mind and runs past a foolish o-lineman. I dont enjoy dropping back 20yrds, but i don’t enjoy getting sacked in 3 seconds either.

Its funny that its soo painful to admit a vid has a flaw in it. Do you realize in the madden vid when i pointed out the QB rolled out of the pocket dropped back 30 yrds and fired a pinpoint shot to the RB everyone tried to tell me it was fine.

People like you seem to be blinded by a fictitious loyalty instead of purchasing a game that emulates the games played on Sunday despite the company logo on the package. Its a shame there are soo many people out there blinded by the loyalty.

Ok i am don’t arguing because tomorrow i'll look back on this and laugh. I would be nice though if an OS member who played this could comment. Although arguing is fun...
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Old 05-19-2004, 09:26 PM   #72
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Re: More E3 ESPN NFL 2005 Movie Clips

first play plenty of time (fellas you like how that fullback picked up the blitzer?).

second play, 3 down and one lb comin from the outside. perfect amount of time with all available options running patterns.

next pass play, vikes oline gives culpepper PLENTY of time but he holds onto the ball too long and gets sacked. LB was on a delayed blitz too but didn't even get to him.

Next play is interesting. Guy manually controls the DT again. This time the qb was smart enough to roll out and had plenty of time to pass. It's debateable whether or not the manually controlled DT would've gotten in there again like the first time.

Next pass play, the pocket was forming to the right, he backed up to the left. still had plenty of time but the defender almost broke off b/c of not reading the pocket.

Next pass play, nobody in the backfield, manually blitzed what looked like a db in dime coverage. 5 guys, 4 blockers. QB actually had time for 3 steps and fire but didn't have much time as expected in that situation.

Next, same situation as last time, plus does a madden type drop back. even if this one was a problem, the T was clearly set up for him to roll out to the left and have all day. just not reading the D. used the evade button here and got a bomb off. picked off (WHAT A FREAKIN PLAY).

I didn't include the running plays b/c we were talking about the pass protection, you were criticizing the pass protection and you were criticizing me and LBz b/c of our explanation about the pass protection.

quick note on the few run plays i saw: lbs fill holes MUCH better. the play you mentioned the d player was picked up but he pushed into the backfield and grabbed the rb.

you can keep saying i blindly defend the game if that's not good enough for you butyou can't say i didn't watch the vids.
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