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wwharton · 05-26-2004, 01:34 PM

you should check ratings in multiplayer too. it's a bit much for an exhibition game but for leagues it does help. you do need to check for yourself though. Upper body and lower body strength do have effects but the difference between a 90 and 70 for either, I couldn't tell you where the cutoff would be.

Also, for QB's the MAIN differences (intelligence, read coverage, etc) are only going to show up for the CPU controlled QBs. I think it's pretty obvious which ones would effect the QB you control though.

Dregur · 05-26-2004, 01:45 PM

I don't think that's true about the Read Pass Coverage attribute. I just recently benched a 2nd round rookie QB for an undrafted rookie QB because the former starter kept throwing interceptions. Even though the 2nd rounder had a better accuracy and arm str, the undrafted guy, who had a RPC 20 points higher than the 2nd rounder, was able to get his pass to the hands of his WR much more, and with much less interceptions.

-The Grinman

wwharton · 05-26-2004, 01:51 PM

you may be right. that was an example off the top of my head but it's been a LONG time since i did any testing. there's also a rating for composure or something else involving the QB's reaction to pressure. this may be playing a role as well. For example, with the Ravens, I prefer to use Boller and his much stronger arm than Redman and Wright, but if I'm playing someone that blitzes a lot I'll use Redman b/c even with the extra pressure his accuracy is pretty consistent. If Boller is pressured a lot his balls start flying into defenders hands.

quizzler · 05-27-2004, 12:36 PM

Do you think they need to more variations to some of their ratings?

Like Consistency.
What about if they had a Skill Consistency(SC) and a Player Consistency (PC) rating. SC would be related to how consistent they are with their skills, while PC would related to how consistent they are in holding using certain skills as a human player. For instance, You are playing as the Rams Warner, but you like to scramble alot. Well the PC rating would prevent you from scramblling outside the pocket very much since he doesn't do that. It would force you to throw inside the pocket if you are like me and love to alway throw the ball outside the pocket or run no matter who i am.

wwharton · 05-27-2004, 03:44 PM

that's not a bad idea but i think it just needs to be clearer how the ones they have effect the players. so, using your example, the cpu warner knows better than to run outside the pocket so he won't really. the human controlled warner would have ratings drop in accuracy, distance, secure ball, etc. if he's taken out of the pocket unless he can set his feet with little pressure. it's possible (probable) that this is how it is now but it needs to be MUCH clearer.

I remember a Colts game where Manning took off for a good 15 yards. He got the yards b/c he had THAT much room but he just looked funny as hell doing it. It was CLEAR that he was doing something he's not supposed to. That's how it should be.

101 · 05-27-2004, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Dregur said:
I don't think that's true about the Read Pass Coverage attribute. I just recently benched a 2nd round rookie QB for an undrafted rookie QB because the former starter kept throwing interceptions. Even though the 2nd rounder had a better accuracy and arm str, the undrafted guy, who had a RPC 20 points higher than the 2nd rounder, was able to get his pass to the hands of his WR much more, and with much less interceptions.

-The Grinman

The half of the PRC attribute that governs how long a QB holds on to the ball is strictly for computer controlled QB's, since obviously there is no way for the AI to determine how quickly a human controlled QB can get rid of the ball.

Also, the QB skill and intelligence ratings, composure especially will be much more pronounced in 2K5 than in 2K4. There are some aspects that are almost too subtle to notice - yes, but alot of that has to do with how dynamic the game is from play 2 play, and the fact that regardless of teams, most people will inevitably fall into redundant gaming habits that won't allow them to see everything the game has to offer.

quizzler · 05-27-2004, 05:48 PM

That will or should be handled by the VIP.

I think that Sega also needs to implement a set of examples to show how each rating is used. Its impossible to show how all of them perfectly. Catching is pretty straight forward, but they could demonstrated the concept of how catching makes a difference with different ratings. And leadership. Leadership should be demonstrated in an example that shows more on the screen that what you normally. Maybe it would be shown in like a cut-like scene of a football game and the rating of the other players be displayed to react to the other persons leadership skills.

I want to know the inner workings of the ratings. I think cutscene like demonstrations would be great.

101 · 05-27-2004, 06:03 PM

Quote:

quizzler said:
That will or should be handled by the VIP.

I think that Sega also needs to implement a set of examples to show how each rating is used. Its impossible to show how all of them perfectly. Catching is pretty straight forward, but they could demonstrated the concept of how catching makes a difference with different ratings. And leadership. Leadership should be demonstrated in an example that shows more on the screen that what you normally. Maybe it would be shown in like a cut-like scene of a football game and the rating of the other players be displayed to react to the other persons leadership skills.

I want to know the inner workings of the ratings. I think cutscene like demonstrations would be great.

That may be more than VC is willing to divulge. They want you to know what each one does, but at the same time don't want to pass out blueprints.

If you bought a burger from a resturaunt and thought it tasted great, then thats about all you need to know-it taste great. They're not just going to show you the recipe.

05-26-2004, 01:34 PM	#9
wwharton ll Str OVR: 28 Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 26,978	Re: Ratings you should check ratings in multiplayer too. it's a bit much for an exhibition game but for leagues it does help. you do need to check for yourself though. Upper body and lower body strength do have effects but the difference between a 90 and 70 for either, I couldn't tell you where the cutoff would be. Also, for QB's the MAIN differences (intelligence, read coverage, etc) are only going to show up for the CPU controlled QBs. I think it's pretty obvious which ones would effect the QB you control though.

05-26-2004, 01:45 PM	#10
Dregur Pro OVR: 5 Join Date: Dec 2002	Re: Ratings I don't think that's true about the Read Pass Coverage attribute. I just recently benched a 2nd round rookie QB for an undrafted rookie QB because the former starter kept throwing interceptions. Even though the 2nd rounder had a better accuracy and arm str, the undrafted guy, who had a RPC 20 points higher than the 2nd rounder, was able to get his pass to the hands of his WR much more, and with much less interceptions. -The Grinman

05-26-2004, 01:51 PM	#11
wwharton ll Str OVR: 28 Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 26,978	Re: Ratings you may be right. that was an example off the top of my head but it's been a LONG time since i did any testing. there's also a rating for composure or something else involving the QB's reaction to pressure. this may be playing a role as well. For example, with the Ravens, I prefer to use Boller and his much stronger arm than Redman and Wright, but if I'm playing someone that blitzes a lot I'll use Redman b/c even with the extra pressure his accuracy is pretty consistent. If Boller is pressured a lot his balls start flying into defenders hands.

05-27-2004, 12:36 PM	#12
quizzler Rookie OVR: 2 Join Date: Jul 2002	Re: Ratings Do you think they need to more variations to some of their ratings? Like Consistency. What about if they had a Skill Consistency(SC) and a Player Consistency (PC) rating. SC would be related to how consistent they are with their skills, while PC would related to how consistent they are in holding using certain skills as a human player. For instance, You are playing as the Rams Warner, but you like to scramble alot. Well the PC rating would prevent you from scramblling outside the pocket very much since he doesn't do that. It would force you to throw inside the pocket if you are like me and love to alway throw the ball outside the pocket or run no matter who i am.

05-27-2004, 03:44 PM	#13
wwharton ll Str OVR: 28 Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 26,978	Re: Ratings that's not a bad idea but i think it just needs to be clearer how the ones they have effect the players. so, using your example, the cpu warner knows better than to run outside the pocket so he won't really. the human controlled warner would have ratings drop in accuracy, distance, secure ball, etc. if he's taken out of the pocket unless he can set his feet with little pressure. it's possible (probable) that this is how it is now but it needs to be MUCH clearer. I remember a Colts game where Manning took off for a good 15 yards. He got the yards b/c he had THAT much room but he just looked funny as hell doing it. It was CLEAR that he was doing something he's not supposed to. That's how it should be.

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05-27-2004, 05:31 PM	#14
101 Pro OVR: 6 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: No Va	Re: Ratings Quote: *Dregur said:* I don't think that's true about the Read Pass Coverage attribute. I just recently benched a 2nd round rookie QB for an undrafted rookie QB because the former starter kept throwing interceptions. Even though the 2nd rounder had a better accuracy and arm str, the undrafted guy, who had a RPC 20 points higher than the 2nd rounder, was able to get his pass to the hands of his WR much more, and with much less interceptions. -The Grinman The half of the PRC attribute that governs how long a QB holds on to the ball is strictly for computer controlled QB's, since obviously there is no way for the AI to determine how quickly a human controlled QB can get rid of the ball. Also, the QB skill and intelligence ratings, composure especially will be much more pronounced in 2K5 than in 2K4. There are some aspects that are almost too subtle to notice - yes, but alot of that has to do with how dynamic the game is from play 2 play, and the fact that regardless of teams, most people will inevitably fall into redundant gaming habits that won't allow them to see everything the game has to offer.

05-27-2004, 05:48 PM	#15
quizzler Rookie OVR: 2 Join Date: Jul 2002	Re: Ratings That will or should be handled by the VIP. I think that Sega also needs to implement a set of examples to show how each rating is used. Its impossible to show how all of them perfectly. Catching is pretty straight forward, but they could demonstrated the concept of how catching makes a difference with different ratings. And leadership. Leadership should be demonstrated in an example that shows more on the screen that what you normally. Maybe it would be shown in like a cut-like scene of a football game and the rating of the other players be displayed to react to the other persons leadership skills. I want to know the inner workings of the ratings. I think cutscene like demonstrations would be great.

05-27-2004, 06:03 PM	#16
101 Pro OVR: 6 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: No Va	Re: Ratings Quote: *quizzler said:* That will or should be handled by the VIP. I think that Sega also needs to implement a set of examples to show how each rating is used. Its impossible to show how all of them perfectly. Catching is pretty straight forward, but they could demonstrated the concept of how catching makes a difference with different ratings. And leadership. Leadership should be demonstrated in an example that shows more on the screen that what you normally. Maybe it would be shown in like a cut-like scene of a football game and the rating of the other players be displayed to react to the other persons leadership skills. I want to know the inner workings of the ratings. I think cutscene like demonstrations would be great. That may be more than VC is willing to divulge. They want you to know what each one does, but at the same time don't want to pass out blueprints. If you bought a burger from a resturaunt and thought it tasted great, then thats about all you need to know-it taste great. They're not just going to show you the recipe.

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