Who is best for VC, Sega or Take-Two???

[tmac2k3]

Sega Sports and ESPN Videogames are synonymous with one another. Last time I checked, ESPN Videogames was Sega's Sports division ... And, Sega Sport's might be "underperforming" because they’re expecting to sell a game without adequate marketing support. Why are they projecting the game to have great sales if they're not going to market it appropriately??? That's something their financial report won't reveal. And, I agree, there is more to marketing than just spending money...especially when you don't have much to spend...just ask VC.

And to the doofis above, who said I didn't like the game...

[WaddupCouzin]

Take-Two seems to be more aggressive at marketing than Sega ever was. It always appeared to me that Sega thought the games would magically fly off the shelves, with no promotion needed. Maybe this is the case in Japan, but I don't think that philosophy works in the US. So far for me, Advantage Take-Two

[ZILLION]

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tmac2k3 said:
Sega Sports and ESPN Videogames are synonymous with one another. Last time I checked, ESPN Videogames was Sega's Sports division

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I never said it wasn't.

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Why are they projecting the game to have great sales if they're not going to market it appropriately???

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They projected the game to have downright mediocre sales,and it didn't reach those. What is approporiate marketing in your eyes? Sega went out and got Wieden-Kennedy for the marketing campaign. Wieden Kennedy are a company who makes commercials for Nike And ESPN and several other large companies. I'll give you a hint. They aren't cheap. They're also the same company who market Need For Speed:Underground and Tiger Woods Golf for EA.

BTW,you cited Gameday as an example of a game that was marketed properly and had longevity. Despite all the millions and great ads 989 SPorts aren't even releasing games this year. They've been otusold by VD and Sega for years now.

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And, I agree, there is more to marketing than just spending money...especially when you don't have much to spend...just ask VC.

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How much did VC spend?

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Take-Two seems to be more aggressive at marketing than Sega ever was.

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Take Two hasn't done anything that hasn't been done before by VC. What's driving the buzz for this game right now is A.positive E3 impressions,B.a great piece at IGN about the game that really put the buzz at an all time high and C.the 19.99 price point. If this game is going to eventually break into the mass market it's going to need a campaign akin to the Genesis does What Nintendon't campaign that halved Nintendo's marketshare. That's what will sell the game to a wider market and severely threaten Madden.

[2kMatrtixevolved]

Sega was VERY aggresive with past products. I remember reading somewhere that they lost alot of money with all the advertising for theur sports titles. I Think this year they have more guns to fire with (product wise) and Take-Two can take full advantage of it.

[tmac2k3]

Unfortunately for VC, merely using Wieden Kennedy is not going to cut it. If the budget is tight, there is no getting around it. I can't tell you exactly how much they spent (can you?) but their spending philosophy is definitely more in line with Donald Sterling than Mark Cuban.

It's not that Gameday was marketed successfully, it's just that the game had longevity and consistency. It's been slowing down during the years due to a lack of quality gameplay but VC doesn't have that problem. The 2K series could be helped by what kept gameday in the thick of things despite the game's poor gameplay: A consistently recognizable name. Madden is always Madden, no ifs ands or buts...unfortunately, you cannot say the same for Sega's football . They went from NFL 2KX, to ESPN NFL, to ESPN 2K5 this year...There is not doubt that this has left many casual gamers confused.

It's true that WK have been responsible for some of the most creative and downright coolest marketing efforts throughout the years, with my favorite being the Vick Powerade commericial. But, they're also the ones responsible for the Beta-7 viral hoax that was downright annoying at best. I'm not blaming WK...I'm not blaming anyone actually. But like you said, for 2K to take down Madden, they're going to need a downright historic marketing campaign for the game/series. And, whether it's Sega's struggling financial situation or their lack of commitment to sports gaming, they just haven't gone the extra mile in terms of marketing... My response is that maybe Sega and VC should part ways. I don't think the game could sell any worse...The price point has everyone stoked, so I'd like to see what else Take-Two has up their sleeves.

[ZILLION]

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I can't tell you exactly how much they spent (can you?)

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More than any other Sega game released in the North American market. Money wasn't the issue. Furthermore,just increasing the marketing budget won't solve the problem because EA will spend more to protect their franchise title. Sega could spend 100 mill,EA will spend 110. Sega spends 110,EA will spend 120. This battle will be won with an extremely creative marketing campaign that sells the game to the consumer.

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And, whether it's Sega's struggling financial situation or their lack of commitment to sports gaming, they just haven't gone the extra mile in terms of marketing

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What Sega's financial situation was in the past is irrelevant since they merged with Sammy. Sammy offers Sega the financial stability they so desperately needed,the kind of financial stability that allows them to take a loss on budget priced sports games in an aggressive effort to increase their marketshare.

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The price point has everyone stoked, so I'd like to see what else Take-Two has up their sleeves

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See,I don't think the price cut was Take Two's call. Judging by the comments of Steve Raab from VC and Hisao Oguchi from VC,it seems to me that the price cut decision was made by VC/Sega and the partnership with Take Two was as a result of their success with their budget priced GlobalStar label. I think the combination of the price cut/co-publishing agreement was considered long before Take Two got involved.

[tmac2k3]

The benefits of the Sega and Sammy merger probably won't be seen until they officially become one company in october. And, I think if EA were really going to match Sega dollar for dollar, we would have seen a similar price drop for Madden.

The funny thing is when totalvideogames.com contacted Sega about the pricing of 2K5, a Sega rep told them it was a "Take-Two strategy," implying that they had less to do with it than Take-Two. I don't know...I guess the key is knowing what really came first?...VC/Sega deciding to go budget, or the co-publishing/distribution agreement with Take-Two.

[ZILLION]

EA doesn't have to match Sega's price. Even if they did,it woudln't sidetrack Sega/Take Two's goal of putting the game in the hands of the hardcore Madden fanbase. If anything a Madden price drop would make that goal that much easier.

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I guess the key is knowing what really came first?...VC/Sega deciding to go budget, or the co-publishing/distribution agreement with Take-Two.

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The main reason I go with Sega is because late last year Hisao Oguchi of Sega said that they weren't giving up on the US sports itles.

http://games.kikizo.com/news/200311/008.asp?f=008.asp

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And, despite the loss-making Sega Sports products, Oguchi wants to carry on trying to compete with EA. "We have made it clear that we will stay in the U.S. sports game market. We need to carefully plan how to compete with EA in terms of marketing, but we believe our games can win more market share because of their high quality."

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I don't think it's a stretch to say that part of that careful planning involved discussion about aggressive pricing. Talks with Take Two may have sealed the decision but I think it's a safe bet that there was discussion about it before then,especially since Sega themselves had dabbled with budget pricing.


Gamespot on VF4 Evo

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VF4: Evolution is part of Sony's $20 "Greatest Hits" collection right out the gate, presumably due to the success of last year's game, but it isn't just a rerelease for those who might have missed out on VF4.

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IGN on VF4 Evo

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This game is the epitome of contemporary fighting games, and at the budget price of only $20, it's virtually priceless.

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Edit:I actually just stumbled upon more proof of Sega's involvement indirectly. At Gamestop they have a listing for Phantasy Star Trilogy by Sega. Listed as the publisher is Jack of All games. WHo is Jack of All Games?

From their website

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Jack of All Games
Jack of All Games is the distribution subsidiary of Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc., a leading worldwide publisher, developer, marketer, distributor of interactive entertainment software games. Take-Two's product offerings include titles for the leading hardware platforms, and are published under the Take-Two, Rockstar Games, Gotham Games Gathering of Developers, Joytech and Global Star labels.

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It's clearly not just a sports thing.